sorry if this has been asked in a different way but i wanted it specifically for me and the spring rates that i requested.

so would 400-425 front spring rates and 525-550 rear rates with a gsr front sway bar and type r rear sway bar cause too much oversteer or would it be neutral?

the reason i ask is because i hear that ppl put on type r rear sway bars to make a car neutral, however what if you have modified springs rates with the rear having a significant amount more than the front?

would it be better to not have any sway bars? only get a gsr rear sway bar and no front bar? only have a gsr front bar?

would the spring rates be too much for koni yellows ( i have em) since at first i heard 600 is the max, but now ive been hearing 400 max.

sorry if its hard to understand, im just really curious. this is on an eg hatch with a b series swap. thanks

 

Hey Rrated,

I don't know too much about spring rates on an EG with the B-series swap specifically. However I do know that it's a bad idea to let any one suspension part do all the work. There are spring rates out there that can make your car ride like it's on rails but that's not a good idea. Same goes for sway bars. However, you should "always" use a little of everything for optimum balance.

Here's what I have on my my EJ coupe (b18c1 w/no AC) for the time being. It performs much better than stock and has a much more neutral feel (the GSR sway bar and 195/55 rear tire profile contribute to this) and than it use to. However it's not the setup I want but it works for now. (ie:yoko A032r's and JDM ITR front rear sways would help a lot)

Front:
Dunlop SP 5000 205/50 R15
Eibach Pro Kit (Acura Spring Rates)
Tokico Struts
Stock EX Sway Bar
Spoon Strut Bar

Rear:
Pirelli P700 195/55 R15
Eibach Pro Kit (Acura Spring Rates)
Tokico Struts
GS-R Rear Sway Bar
Spoon Strut Bar

Oh BTW: NEVER entirely remove your front sway bar, less you want the worse body roll in history heheh.

 

thanks for your reply. the 95 cx doesnt come with any sway bars, so not having a front sway bar is where i started. as of right now i have a front gsr one. i already know how to workt he front. its just the rear that i have a problem with. i mean if i run higher rates in the rear than in the front and also put a big rear sway bar will i oversteer too much or will i be ok?

 

anyone else? thanks

 

Remember, the CX / EG chassis although the same as the DC2 has major weight differences. For instance, the ITR rear is heavier than the CX, so it needs a stiffer rear sway bar than what a CX would need for neutral handling. Also keep in mind that going 22mm or higher (maybe even 21mm) requires sub-frame reinforcement! Tons of people tear there sub-frame from turning hard with large rear sway bars!

 

sorry, ammending my previous statement about the ITR and the rear sway bar...

The ITR has larger "over" hang over the rear wheels and it's weight distribution is slightly further off than the EG chassis since the wheelbase is "slightly" longer so that's why it has 22/23mm rear sway bar, strut bar, and bumper support brace. All to increase the rigidty of the rear for more neutral feedback of the car.

Ok I'm gonna shut up now.

 

thanks for the reply dude. can anyone answer my question specifically? id really appreciate it. TIV

 

I can tell ya 350f no bar, 400r ITR bar is a handful (no p/s)!

 

Here goes. First, I don't claim to be an expert just know what works for me and some others. 90 CRX SI, yes I know it isn't the same car. 375/500lb springs F/R, ST 21mm bar set in middle hole, Koni Sport shocks-off the shelf. Car is interesting on cold tires. Once warmed up becomes more neutral. I use this car because the wheelbase is 12 inches shorter than yours. Some friends running H-C with 92+ civics are running 700/900lb F/R with ITR rear bar. It comes down to driver style. I think what you have should be quite adequate for track use

 

hrmm , i see.

so would u think that 400f , 500 r with a gsr front sway bar and type r rear sway bar is neutral enough? i would like it more setup for autox with some daily driving in mind. ride comfort isnt that big of an issue. should i go more than that or ?

 

I think your setup will be good for autocross. Though I'm not sure about the front bar.

Here's my contribution to the whole shock deal... You may be able to get away without revalving your shocks, but I guarentee you will get more out of your suspension if you DO revalve them. My suggestion is to run the setup you suggested for a season. If you really like it and don't want to make any changes to the rates then I'd go ahead and get the shocks revalved. Proper (critical) dampening is very important to a performance vehicle.

My $0.02

 

hrmm thanks. i just read another thread about how much the konis can handle in terms of spring rates. and before i thought it was 600 lb. but now it seems 400 and even that is maxed out on a koni SA. i guess i might be going towards from tein flex/ha or something? dunno i hate their rear spring rates tho

 

Well, you can buy any prebuilt setup but I think you will be hard pressed to find the spring rates that will truely perform. The point I was trying to make about the revalve is : Say I have a setup that 350/400 for a car. Supposedly within the limits of a koni SA shock right? The Koni SA's are only rebound adjustable so you can set the optimal point for rebound only. There for if you are 100% happy with those rates (350/400) then you get the shocks revalved so the compression (bound) rate is optimized for those rates.

You change springs with any kit this can become an issue...I'm not sure how serious you are but, just thought I'd throw that out there.

 

i understand what you are getting at. so what rates do u think is a good starting point? should the front be heavier or the rear on a b series swapped eg cx hatch? thanks a bunch man

 

lol it seems like sometimes when i ask a question here i end up with more questions or become even more confused than before

 

Personally, I'm starting to switch to the camp of higher rear rates are better but I have very little experience with the hatches that tend to be a little twitchier then the integra chassis. There is a guy on this board that goes by the name of "Rodney". He can be a little overbearing , but I'm sure he can supply you with some good hybrid info. I drove his car this past weekend and it was very balanced.

 

My setup - EG hatch - B18c1 (w/quaife)

500 front
550 rear
GSR front bar
22mm Comptech rear
Azenis

This is the only setup I've run as I'm not consistent enough as a driver yet to start playing with things.

On the track, the car feels very stable. On the slowest corners it could possibly have a little more oversteer. On the medium and fast ones it feels nice with very little push. It is easy to induce oversteer, usually very easy to catch oversteer, but will come around if driven wrong.

On the street, the car is twitchy and reacts unexpetedly to bumps/potholes/depressions/lines, etc... I really only drive the car to track events, but if it were my daily driver I would change the setup.

A more "streetable" setup might be a civic front with a GSR rear. Perhaps the bigger bars with a little lower spring rates would be better? Again, I can only give you my impression of my setup, which is close to what you're proposing.

You've yet to mention what you're using the car for so I'm forced to assume it's a street car... If that's the case, I would personally stay away from the 22mm rear bar. I don't consider it safe given all the unexpected things that can happen. The last thing you want is for someone to pull out in front of you, you hit the brakes and spin into a ditch... or worse yet oncoming traffic.

 

thanks for the info... one thing u said at the end is very surprsing. i was going to post about it. sometimes when i hit my brakes hard the car feels like its twisting or the back is coming out. i have a gsr front bar and no rear and it still does this. i cant imagine what would happen if i had type r bar in the rear. is this waht u speak of? or am i on a totally diff subject? i wont go bigger than type r. i do plan to autox, but it is also a street car , yet i dont care much for ride comfort as long as my teeth dont fall out

 

I met a guy at divisionals this year in Houston with your chassis and a 2.0 bottom with ITR head. He was running 400f/450r with a 25mm rear anti sway bar. He used konis with GC. He was really fast. Car was very balanced. I think the 400f/500r with the ITR rear bar would be great for the autoX.

If you are considering a threaded body coilover, you can specify your own rates if you want. Like Tein. Those dampers can usually take more spring rate as well.

 

cool, i guess from what you said and the other guy that posted about his setup is this. the type r sway bar is good for auto x, but u never know what can happen on the street with em. so i think im gonna go with 400f 450r and put a gsr rear sway bar and take my front sway bar off. or just get a civic ex sway bar for the front. that should be enough and still let the konis have some adjustment.

 

Honestly, I really would not worry about those rates with the ITR rear antisway bar! On the street it will be balanced. Once you push the car closer to the limit, then it will be loose in the back, but only after you have adjusted the tire pressures.

The tire pressures, shock settings, and the level you drive your car on the street will be different. Please dont waste your time with the GSR rear bar. Do it right the first time and you wont regret it.

I know I have a different car, 95 GSR, but... I have 450f/615r with the ITR rear bar and it is no where near loose on the street even in the rain.

You are going to have a great setup with the 400/450 w/ ITR rear bar, go with it!

 

u said that if i pushed the car to the limits that i would break the rear lose with a 450r, u think i should lower it or make it higher to make it neutral?

 

You want to be able to get the rear to do what you want on a autocross track. The way to do this is to have a setup that when pushed to cornering limits, the rear can be manipulated with the throttle, braking, and steering inputs. I think you should continue with the 400f/450r with ITR rear bar! This will be a good starting place for your car at an autocross.

 

sounds good, the only thing i worry about is if later on i want to go to higher rates in the rear and im gonna regret not getting em. i would like to know why u recommend 450r but u run 615r? lol what kinda shocks do u use? tia

 

I have a different car which is gonna require different rates. The reason most people say go with 400f/450r is that is what works on your chassis. You may want to go higher in the rear later, for a little more oversteer. (Higher rates in the rear = less understeer or more oversteer). The only reason you may want this in the future is most more experienced drivers want a looser setup, with that more experience and looser setup = usually faster. Still, start out with that setup, you will enjoy it and gain a lot of experience from it.