well I was breaking in my new engine (Toda B's, Endyn RW's) put together by Leitner & Bush (25 years of engine building including for racing motorcycles that ran in the Isle of Man TT and Honda B series racing engines). They degreed the cams. The clearances were blueprinted.

I was following Endyn's break in schedule...she's at the 5K rpm rev limit for occasional "zings" up to 3rd gear and a 4k rev limit for most of the time.

I was cruising today to get in some miles doing 40 mph...then the engine stutters. I slow down and pull over. The engine won't idle.

I open the hood and the timing belt teeth are shredded.

I hate those cams.

 

Boo... that sucks.

I'd blame Endyn...

Any damage to the engine / Valves?

Power Enterprises?

 

was your belt real tight? probably at factory tension right?

why didnt you just get a blue belt like the rest of us?

 

So why didn't you get different cams? This isn't the first problem you've attributed to the Toda cams.

 

Guess some people dont think that a $130 triminbg belt is important... this just shows that when you built a motor, it is better to take an extra week if you need to raise the money for a belt or to just get 1...

not worth skimping out on the heart of the motor...

Get a PE belt and you will LOVE yer setup...


[Modified by newspeedR, 4:54 PM 10/1/2002]

 

So true!!

 

10k miles on stock timing belt, stock valvetrain. Toda B's, Toda Gen 1 cam gears...

Zero problems.

Why do y'all keep shredding belts? I know many B owners who haven't. Perhaps some of them can jump in here and explain why.

 

could be the weather?

 

I spent 30 min. on the phone with Allen at AKH Racing. We went through the possible causes.

He said that they've never had any flapping belt issues on their 4 cars with B's
(Am I supposed to be surprised?) and that they are using stock Honda belts. Their B18C5 with C's has 45k miles with a stock belt and it gets thumped.

Seondly apparently flapping belts is a US only phenomenon. They have "never" seen it in Japan and the new Toda belts are for the US market specifically to counter this problem that has manifested here.

Over in Japan they run stock Honda belts.

I'm sorry but the engine builders I used are not amateurs and so, if you have this many reports for a product of a problem you can't blame it on installation error particularly when the people installing them have done that install for 25 years on race engines...not this many people can be having an install problem...it's a product issue...enough to make Toda sell a special timing belt.


I'm sorry but anyone who I would call a friend would never get a recommendation for these cams from me.

Nothing against AKH (great customer service) or the guys here who make awesome power with them but they've been nothing but a headache to me.

Now onto the possible issues you should be aware of...

1. B18C1's..AKH has no car with a B18C1 with those cams....that was one thing Allen and I raised...PR3 based engines (b16a head including rockers) may have something more compatible with these cams than the B18C1's.

2. Milled heads...mine was done by DPR and milled 20 thou....Allen tells me that 10 thou is the factory servive limit and he's had problems with heads which have been milled mmore than that...especially if they have been milled 30-35 thou.

3. cam gears...this used to be the old excuse for why those belts slipped with toda b's...well I have Toda cam gears (gen 2)...not an excuse this time.

if anyone can tell me why a brand new Honda belt with only 500 gentle miles on it shreds with a professional install, please tell me...

I'm looking at those Skunk2 stage 2's real hard now....

 

I think the belts vary in quality.
I had one belt last me about 45k miles. and then got some that went once a week.
Needless to say, i dont take chances with the belt anymore

 

1. B18C1 or B18C5 same thing. not enough differences to matter.

2. also shouldnt matter except for piston/valve clearance

3. cam gears would be a weak excuse though I have seen some cam gears that
are harsh on belts. though i dont know anyone that uses them anymore

4. skunk stage 2 cams have their own set of interesting problems.

 

TypeR_126 went through 3 belts before he sold the car off with an engine that didn't run. All of the belts were broken on a 2.0L 12.5+:1 CR, ported head. The car was reassembled by the new owner and has yet to have the same difficulty with stock cams, also had the Spec C's installed for 300 miles before there was a different issue with the block.

Austin - who does not regret selling his Spec B's

 

think things just happen...high lift cam equals high price. i have spec b's and shredded an oem belt with about 5000 miles on it tops, dont know the reason and couldnt say. i do agree with sgT points made earlier but dont know any problems with skunk2 stage 2, i really dont pay attention because i dont own them. now i have a power enterprise belt and the setup works fine. i think it just varies from engine to engine. i know there are people on here running b's with no problems. basically i am just gonna watch the belts for wear and replace as needed. better than paying 500+ for new valves.

 

ever thought maybe its not your timing belt ? I would assess everything including the possibility of someone changing your cam caps accidentally of course ... otherwise sezing distributor, seizing tensioner pulley, etc.

I've never had that happen twice in a row like that.

Greg

 

Michael - Did the cam gears slip at all?? Have you examined the cam gear teeth??Did you cut the engine cover? (maybe road debris got in between the belt and the cam gear teeth)

BPR - who has no problems with Spec B's/stock belt with 10000 kms of high revving




[Modified by Big Phat R, 5:27 PM 10/1/2002]

 

Perhaps the tensioner could not hold? Or was not tightened down enough intially? Maybe it needs to be checked after a few miles for tightness?

Shredded belt (to me) suggests flopping belt suggests loose belt.

Thoughts?

 

tensioner bolt not tight enough?

I have seen the bolt backed out (?) on an ITR with B's... but the belt was ok after it jumped teeth.


[Modified by Willard, 8:28 PM 10/1/2002]

 

my tensioner never moved.
Though your idea of loose belt is what i thought as well. Which is why
i make them extra tight and the problem goes away. But a stock belt
cant take that kind of tension for long either.

 

how would a cut valve cover affect it? possibly cutting into the timing belt?

 

Debris

 

Splat -- you had stock ITR valvetrain, right?

 

I lost a motor to a belt with my b's. Now when I tension my belt I actually put a wrench on the intake cam gear bolt and apply pressure while pulling on the tensioner at the same time. It pulls all the "slack/flap" out of the middle of the belt between the cam gears. I also run a PE belt.

 

34,000 miles on JUN III with stock timing belt abused daily

 

Wanna sell your b's?

SGT- what problems do the skunk2's stage 2's have?

 

How about get the Toda Timing belt. They recomended it..maybe for a reason?