Ok, so earlier I posted a thread in the civic/del sol forum about a problem I was having with my coilovers I just recently acquired. Here's a link, if you're interested: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=257829.

After thinking this through, I've decided I'm pretty much screwed with these stupid cheap coilovers, and I'm just going to sell these and get some coilover sleeves from a reputable dealer/manufacturer.

However, I need to know what WILL work for SURE. I'm tired of messing around with my suspension and trying to make stuff work that isn't really optimal or meant to work in a certain manner. What I need is a proven setup. I have an almost brand new set of Bilstein HD shocks for my car, and would like to keep these as I'm very happy with them.

What coilover sleeves are going to fit on these shocks and allow me to have a full range of adjustability? I'm not really looking to move up to full coilovers, as the price jump is just too much. I'd like to stick with sleeves, as I have the shocks already.

Anyone have any suggestions? Here is a picture of my car two days ago at about the ride height I'd like it to be once I'm done (maybe a bit lower in the back). When this pic was taken, I could barely drive the car because the coilovers were clanking and making such a racket that I thought the whole thing would fall apart.

 

Ground control is the only way to go when you are going with sleeves. They are the ****, and will perform for you. Bilsteins are great too! Call up ground control and talk to them about your needs, and they will hook you up I'm sure.

Jon

 

I was using maxspeed coilover sleeves when i went to replace my shocks i also got the hds the front set should work as the shock is the same size but on the rear i purchased a used set of skunk2 coilovers and used my drill and a hone to bore out the sleeve to fit over the rear but were the little metal ring sits on the shock it actually raised the sleeve up about 3/8" so I am now running that sleeve with one perch turned all the way down and it still sits a little higher than were it was before

 

So it sounds like my problem is just that I bought shitty coilovers then...

Sounds like I'm in the market for a set of ground controls.

 

I suggest that you first check with Bilstein to see how low you can go with the HD. Some shocks are not designed to go with very low springs.

Second, if the springs are pretty stiff, IMO those shocks will not be able to dampen them and you might get a pretty bouncy ride. But if you don't mind that then I guess it is no problem. I have Bilstein HD with H&R OE springs (not very stiff) and the shocks don't do that great of a job. They barely dampen the springs. I will soon replace them with ITR shocks, and if I put the Bilstein back on I will get them re-valved stiffer.

 

Vitt1: so the stock ITR shocks are actually stiffer than the Bilsteins HD's? I guess I had the wrong idea when I bought these. So far they've been pretty good though, no bouncing at all with the Neuspeed Race springs I had before, and minimal bouncing even slammed as far as these coilovers will go.

Well, if this is the case, and now that I think about it, it probably is... these shocks just weren't meant to be used on that low of a car, can anyone recommend shocks that can stand up to the abuse dished out by a really low car? I suppose I'm looking at dishing out the bucks for a set of Koni's now, right?

 

Try Truechoice in Hilliard Ohio. They can re-valve and shorten a set of Koni's. Just tell them exactly what you want and they will put a whole package together, shocks, springs, sleeves etc.

 

Yes, the Bilstein HDs are made for street ride comfort. I thought they were self adjusting enough to be able to handle aggressive driving. I'm sure they would've been great with my stock GSR springs. Call this place: Shoktec 814/774-880 and see what they can recommend for your Bilsteins. They revalve them.
Bilstein USA in SoCal also revalve them, but shoktec are more helpful in determining stiffness, etc.


[Modified by Vitt1, 8:49 AM 8/21/2002]

 

What kind of costs am I looking at for revalving? If it's over a couple hundred bucks, I might as well ditch the bilsteins and buy a set of Koni's, y'know?

 

Revalving costs lots. Last time I checked, Shoktec was charging $75 per shock, and Bilstein $55/shock. Plus the shipping there and back. If I would've known the HDs are not for serious performance, I would've bought the Koni or KYB AGX. I dont' have any experience with these, but there are lots of ppl that like the AGX. Shoktec also makes the Bilstein adjustable, but that costs a whole lot more.

 

I'm not an expert in suspension or shocks, but I do know that neuspeed race springs are quite stiff. If you think your shocks are handling them good, than you have nothing to worry about. I know that the HD's are stiffer than type r shocks, because I've seen many type r owners switch over to them from stock. Get ground controls, I beleive they have special sleeves for bilsteins.

 

Type R doesn't use the Bilstein HDs, they use the Bilstein Sports, which are stiffer. Had I known that at the time, i would have gladly bought some ITR LCAs and bought the Bilstein sports for ITR. Right now with these HD shocks I get way too much body roll, and the springs I have are stiffer than the ITR's, but not by much.

 

743teg: Yeah, the Bilstein's did a good job when I had my Neuspeed Race springs on there... no bouncing at all. But the Neuspeeds aren't really THAT stiff compared to some of the springs that come with coilover sleeves that are available. Even these sh**ty "dual-spring" design coilovers I bought bounce on the bilsteins.

I did some research on ground control coilover sleeves and it seems they DO have a special setup for Koni's and for Bilsteins, however, I'm not exactly sure how this aleviates the ride-height problem, because the Bilstein shocks are still to tall to be able to adjust the ride height down in the rear.

Anyway, I've been contemplating this whole dilemma and I think I'm going to start looking into a set of true coilovers... possible tein or the H&R ones. With all the time, effort and money i've wasted first with "sport drop" springs, then my neuspeeds and bilsteins, and now these, I could probably justify just going full coilovers. It's only going to end up being a tad more than I would end up spending to get a whole new set of Koni's and ground controls with the special adapters. All this fuss is just not worth it.

Hopefully I can get a refund from the seller of these cheesy coils, since I've now noticed that the junction between upper and lower spring allows the lower spring to lean over when compressed, and it's been scraping all up and down the adjuster sleeve (yippee!). Then I'll order myself a set of full coils and sell my old neuspeeds and my bilsteins.

 

I ended up only ordering the sleeves and perches from them (koni-made products) and got the koni shocks from neuspeed (20mm shorter with 5 perch settings) and bought eibach ers springs in the rates i wanted from a shop in california selling them for about $50 a piece. this worked out to save me a few hundred over a truechoice phase 2 kit.

but the bilsteins aren't bad shocks...

 

If you really want to know.. the bilstien HD's are made for stock ride height, they are not made for a lowered car. They are very stiff shocks and get harder as they warm up. The HD's are the same valving as the "sports" but the sports are one inch shorter, hence made for a lower ride height. You do not need to get the shock revaled unless you are going above 400 spring rates... not sure what the other guys got thier information but they are wrong about some things they were saying. Also the GC's are the way to go.. do not get the spring rate they premake... it is way to soft. Also there are many more places to get the koni's revalved, while the bilstiens are a little harder to find. Hoped this helped some

-nate (loves his HD's)

 

Right now I have Bilstein HD's on my 92 Civic HB. I will be swapping the rear struts for ITR Bilstein SP's. You mentions that the strut is 1" shorter.....would this make my car drop lower or is that all on the strut housing/rod??

 

Last time I called shoctec they were out of buisness.

If you want to have bilsteins revalved deal with bilstein ...I sent my rears down last week for revalving to 900's ...$55 per shock


Stock HD's aren't meant for extremly lowered cars because the piston bottoms out...outside the shock body so if your not careful with your bumpstop trimming you can pop them. But of course this can be cured with modifying the shock. This is the same case with AGX's.

The compression on stock HD's is quite stiff but the rebound isn't too agressive for stiffer springs.

 

Where did I get my information?

1. From some knowledgeable ppl on this board who did some research on Bilsteins a while ago. AND 2) Bilstein (858) 386-5900.
Now, please tell us where did you get your information:

Bilsteins are self-adjustable, but this notion that they adjust from comfort soft to track ready stiff is inaccurate. Why would Bilstein offer to revalve them if that was the case? I’ve driven hard for more than 30 min. and the shocks didn’t get much stiffer. The valving on the SP for ITR are much higher (stiffer) than the HD for GS/GSR. (I double checked this with Bilstein myself when I was considering revalving). Ask Bilstein yourself and stop giving out misinformation.

I frequent this board so people can exchange useful and ‘ACCURATE” information to help each other out. I’ve been helped many times, but these days I try to be very careful who I get my information from, otherwise I’d be making some very bad choices.

 

to the top it goes
hehe

i'm comtemplating swtiching my tokicos illuminas to bilstein HD with h&r sport springs cos i'm cutting back on autoX. is that a good choice?
my car is about 80% daily driver with 20% spirited driving and autoX
from the the above info, will 1.75 front 1.5 rear drop be too much for the HD's?
tia

 

matt, couple thoughts id like to share. first, your question about the effectiveness of the dual spring setup is not really ideal. its not the same thing as progressive springs either. how your springs will work is basically have a single spring rate that is somewhere between the two individual spring rates (inverse sums to be exact) until one of them fully compresses (usually the weaker one) and then the total spring rate will be left to the other non-fully compressed spring (which is higher). this isnt as good as progressive where its a smooth transition at least, instead of an infinite slope. judging from your pics tho, it seems you are probably bottoming out your shocks anyway, which also isnt good as it is another infinite slope transition to no shock absorbtion. so i suspect your ride quality is pretty bad anyway. but dont get my wrong, progressive springs are good on the street as you have the zone where the spring rate is less and can respond more comfortably to smaller bumps.

as far as the clanking goes, did you figure out what exactly was clanking? is the sleeve not tight around the shock tube? thats what those o rings are there for. is it the springs? ive heard of ppl zip tying the springs to the perch so they dont rattle. also, you can get spring tenders to keep the springs from rattling as well by maintaining a bit of spring force to keep the spring(s) down, but insignificant to the actual spring rate.

yeah, you should have gotten ground controls. but see if you can get what you got to work for you. in the end, its all just hunks of metal, and work rather simply.

oh and please read my coilover faq. http://www.norcalcrx.org/tyson/coilover.html


[Modified by Tyson, 11:09 PM 11/10/2002]