1993 Honda Prelude Si h23a1

-Compression is reading 180 across all cylinders.

-I replaced the spark plugs and distributor cap/rotor. I pulled the spark plugs out and they are def. sparking. I checked the grounds (at the thermostat, starter, and head cover) and all are good.

-I pulled the plug after cranking and it smelled like gas so i'm assuming i'm getting fuel to the cylinders. (I pulled the fuel line off of the fuel rail and had someone crank the car and gasoline def. spits out).

-I tried airing out the excess gas (if any) in the cylinders over night by removing the spark plugs.

-I tried adjusting the distributor position and the car will "barely" start up but only when i retard it all the way BUT **when it does start, i had to have it on WOT to keep it running and the rpm wouldnt go higher than id say 1200 rpm even when flooring the gas pedal**. if i lay off the gas, the engine dies.

(BTW, i just checked my external coil and its corroded at the top where the plug wire goes. my question, will my car still start up even if the connection point is poor on the external coil?)

Any help will be great. thanks


Modified by Jos3ph at 12:58 PM 9/27/2008

 

Sounds like timing. Check your cam timing.

 

I scrapped off the corrosion off the external coil until it was all bare metal and got a continuity but still won't start so thats not the problem.

hey acid, could the cam timing be off even if i am reading 180 psi across all 4 cylinders? i assumed since the compression tested out fine, then the cams and the crank shaft are timed correctly. i checked anyways and pulled the head cover off and the cams are lined up in sync.

 

wow that didnt click.

hmm. if you have fuel, spark, and comp. the only thing left is timing.

 

since my compression is 180 psi in all four cylinders, that means i don't have to remove the timing belt and realign the cams/crank right?

if i can see my spark plugs firing, does that mean my distributor is fine?

now for fuel, is there a way to find if my injectors are working correctly? i know i can measure the fuel pressure from the rail but that doesn't mean that my injectors are working right?

(BTW, my engine service light stays on solid when i jump the connector)

 

I dont know dude. I usally look for the simplest explanition. If there is comp, spark, and gas, the only thing left is timing to make the combustion cycle work.

 

spark plugs in the right firing order

 

okay, i rechecked to make sure i am getting fuel so i cranked the car a couple of times and pulled the spark plugs and smelled them. at first i thought it was fuel but it ended up being just the "motor oil smell". stupid me

I'm assuming i'm not getting any sufficient fuel into the combustion chamber so i measured the resistance of the injectors and the voltage (when ignition is on) from the connectors and they checked out fine.

I know the fuel pump is working because i removed the service bolt on the fuel rail and turned the ignition on and fuel started to spill out. BUT i'm not sure if im getting enough pressure so i'm going to buy a fuel meter to test the pressure.

(BTW, i did the "K-test" if u are familiar w/ this, and the ecu checked out fine. I also resoldered the connection points on the main relay just in case, and it clicks fine as well).

Any other ideas if, the fuel pressure checks out fine?


Modified by Jos3ph at 5:20 PM 9/28/2008

 

Okay, seeing how you skipped 20820348 steps, when did your car stop starting heheh?

Have you done any work to it prior to it not firing up?
Did it just suddenly happen? You left it the night before. Tried to start it and nothing?
What do you hear when you start it? It cranks and everything?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Acidcrakker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
spark plugs in the right firing order</TD></TR></TABLE>

double check that. Ive done that a few times.

1-3-4-2

 

If you read my thread, I basically had the same exact problem. I changed the ignition coil and everything was good to go, fired up right away. What are you resistances for it?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattsnooz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Okay, seeing how you skipped 20820348 steps, when did your car stop starting heheh?

Have you done any work to it prior to it not firing up?
Did it just suddenly happen? You left it the night before. Tried to start it and nothing?
What do you hear when you start it? It cranks and everything?</TD></TR></TABLE>

My timing belt snapped about a month ago, bent 12 valves, brought it a machine shop about 3 weeks ago to have them replaced, installed the head 2 weeks ago and fired her up and it worked perfectly but the front and rear balancer shafts were out of sync (caused lots of vibration) so the following week i re-adjusted the balancer shaft belt and now it won't start. (Compression is still at 180 psi across all cylinders).

However, when i advance the timing all the way and i have the gas pedal at WOT, the car will barely start after 3-4 cranks, BUT the rpm won't go past around 1000 rpm even when i floor the gas. HOWEVER, just last week after trying to continuously start it on friday night, i took out the spark plugs (to air out any extra fuel in the cylinder). the next morning i started her up and it barely started again BUT now i was able to rev it past 1000rpm. I turned the car off after about 20 seconds and tried starting her up again but now it was the same as the night before (won't rev past 1000rpm and dies if i lay off the gas).

I ordered a fuel pressure meter that mounts on the fuel rail, so i should be able to check the pressure this weekend. I know the fuel pump works because i can hear it when i turn on the ignition and i also removed the service bolt on the fuel rail and turned the ignition on and fuel started pouring out. Now, that doesn't really mean i have sufficient fuel pressure so that's one thing i'm going to be checking when i get my fuel pressure meter in the mail.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lude98SH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
double check that. Ive done that a few times.
1-3-4-2 </TD></TR></TABLE>

I quadruple checked the firing order and its correct.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elude714 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you read my thread, I basically had the same exact problem. I changed the ignition coil and everything was good to go, fired up right away. What are you resistances for it?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm currently in gainesville for school and i go back to jacksonville on the weekends (thats where my car is) so i can't check until this weekend. I'm thinking if my fuel pressure is within tolerance, it might be my ignition coil. Another thing i'm going to do first is spray some starter fluid in the intake manifold and crank her up. Of course if she starts, then theres something wrong with my fuel. If she sounds the same, most likely it is my ignition coil.




Modified by Jos3ph at 3:50 PM 9/30/2008

 

It really sounds like your missing a ground wire somewhere.

You didnt touch the timing belt at all correct. just the front and rear balance shaft pulleys.

You can also cut the balance shaft belt off. Its not needed.

 

I doubled checked the continuity of the ground wires on the thermostat, starter, and the one on the valve cover and all are fine. I even scraped off the paint on the valve cover to make sure it has metal to metal contact.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Acidcrakker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You didnt touch the timing belt at all correct.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I noticed that the exhaust cam was one tooth off so i did adjust that along with the balancer shafts but thats it. After which i checked the compression just in case and it turned out 180 psi across all cylinders again.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Acidcrakker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You can also cut the balance shaft belt off. Its not needed.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've been reading about people taking off the balancer shaft belt for a little more power and might try it out if i can get my car working.


Modified by Jos3ph at 3:52 PM 9/30/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lude98SH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

double check that. Ive done that a few times.

1-3-4-2 </TD></TR></TABLE>

One thing i have to mention about that is that if your looking at the helms for this info. Flip the book upside down otherwise the distributor is upside down.

 

Yeah, i did exactly what you mentioned and flipped the book upside down to make sure i had it hooked up correctly. Nice thing to point out though. Not sure why helms made it that way.

 

Okay guys, I bought a new distributor and she still won't turn on. I decided to take some pictures and a video of the startup:

Spark plug order:


Compression - Cylinder 1:


Compression - Cylinder 2:


Compression - Cylinder 3:


Compression - Cylinder 4:


Fuel Pressure - Roughly around 36-37 psi (at the fuel filter)



Let me know what you guys think. Thanks

Modified by Jos3ph at 2:59 PM 10/4/2008


Modified by Jos3ph at 3:23 PM 10/4/2008


Modified by Jos3ph at 3:23 PM 10/4/2008


Modified by Jos3ph at 4:35 PM 10/4/2008


Modified by Jos3ph at 6:20 PM 10/4/2008

 

cant get the video to work...im interested cause i have pretty much the same problem.

 

it says u need a password to see ur album

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jos3ph &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I noticed that the exhaust cam was one tooth off so i did adjust that...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think the distributor is attached to that, so changing it would affect timing.

 

I uploaded the video on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1id7eBuiVw

I also tried switching out the stock ecu (p14) with a 92-95 civic non vtec ecu (p05) and it still gave me the same symptons (starting but wont go higher than idle rpm).

Let me know what you guys think. I'm still stumped on why it won't rev higher than 1500 rpm even when i floor the pedal. As if the amount of fuel injected inside the cylinder doesn't go any higher.

Modified by Jos3ph at 6:52 PM 10/4/2008


Modified by Jos3ph at 6:54 PM 10/4/2008

 

Ignore the other video, as that was taken earlier today when i didn't have the clock/interior light fuse in.

Here is an updated video that i took like 30 minutes ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQi0uQvwMU4

 

See if you can get it idling long enough to get the motor up to temp, then use a timing light to verify that the ignition timing is correct, especially since you replaced the distributor.
and don't forget to jump the service connector while doing this.

 

So i started her back up again and i floored the gas pedal as usual and wouldn't go over 500rpm. I kept it there for like 5 minutes until she warmed up then i released the gas pedal and she was coughing, barely alive....and was at the lowest rpm possible without stalling out.

I did notice a couple of things that stood out to me:

1. When i slowly released the gas pedal from WOT, it didn't effect the engine at all until my foot was almost off the pedal, from which then it would almost stall out. (it kind of feels as if my car doesn't know the throttle position, therefore not injecting the extra gas in order to compensate for the extra air. (i hope that makes sense)

2. It seemed like the more i advanced the timing, the better the rpm. I advanced the distributor as far as possible (towards the firewall), but it feels as though the engine would run better if i was able to rotate it further.

Is it possible that a bad TPS (throttle position sensor) could effect the amount of gas that the injectors spit out?

 

bump....i want to get her running asap; hate driving around in my dad's ford pos.

Anyone know what components of the car that would control the amount of gas the injectors spit out as a function of the throttle position?

Clogged injectors? limiting the amount of fuel into the cylinders

I'm running out of ideas.....sigh