The responses that I've seen regarding these bushings are just so mixed. Firstly, when I say 'bushings' Im referring to only the Lower and upper control arms--Including of course the front shock bushings; and also the stabilizer bar end links. Alot of complaints come from, I think, people using the RTA poly bushing--or other rear bushings perhaps. People say they wear quickly, deform, squeak, and possibly even fail. That sounds terrible! But they do stiffen the ride correct? And perhaps improve response and feel? But at what cost to the bushing itself? Im in a 91 crx. Im about to do Illuminas, h&r race springs, and new front and rear crossmembers. I already bought the bushings. And I really want to just talk with some people on the pros and cons!

 

OEM are fine in most cases. Poly will stiffen the ride and increase response. Many people like hard rubber bushings (HardRace or Mugen)

 

Yea, I actually just found out today that kingmotorsports sells all the mugen hard rubber bushings. Had I known about this before I bought my parts I totally would have spent the extra cash. Now, however, Im just trying to decide whether its worth it to give poly a try, and slap them in, or sell the bushings I have and take a hit on the price--then buy a mixture of oem and mugen.

But this thread isnt just about me!--I want to hear other people's thoughts regardless of car or setup!

 

I can't comment on Honda's, but on my Miata, I swapped the upper and lower control arm bushings in the front and rear with poly-urethane bushings and so far, so good after about 30k miles (street, track, and drift). I haven't had problems with them squeaking or falling apart. The ride got a little harsher (with my spring rates, I expected not to notice), but it's a good trade off for the increase in feedback and lack of "squirm" on turn in and in-turn stability. I attribute that to having the control arms not moving extraneously during the turn. I'm not going to say that my car is the rule or the exception, but that's my experience.

 

Buying p/u bushings for a street car is the first mistake - they are 100% unnecessary on a street car. The benefit is in reduced deflection of the various suspension arms, not the stiffer ride. Why anyone feels that their street car needs less deflection and a stiffer ride is beyond me. But on a race car, there is a need, and since everything is a wear item on a race car, who cares if a $10 bushing wears out after a season? Replace it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIC Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Buying p/u bushings for a street car is the first mistake - they are 100% unnecessary on a street car. The benefit is in reduced deflection of the various suspension arms, not the stiffer ride. Why anyone feels that their street car needs less deflection and a stiffer ride is beyond me. But on a race car, there is a need, and since everything is a wear item on a race car, who cares if a $10 bushing wears out after a season? Replace it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yea. Thats exactly what I was waiting to hear. I suppose my poly choice was a very hasty one. So really my lack of knowledge was my first mistake! Thanks for the input.

 

I had problems with my rear trailing arm bushings when I put the ES ones in. The spindle that goes through them slid across more than the stock ones would have allowed the arm to go and I think that was the reason that the rear felt really sloppy when going over long dips in the road on highways. Just replaced them with Mugen and everything is golden. Night and day. At least go OEM or Mugen if you have the extra casholla. Also, my problem with the rear trailing arm ES bushings was never really mentioned anywhere else. I don't know why. I never had the "usual" ES problems like binding or squeaking so whatever.

 

Well for some people a race car and a dd isn't an option. At least it's not for me yet, and i love auto-x and hpde, so i got poly bushings. I have been DDing them for two year and no problems. Recently thy have started to squeek and get a little noisy, a little grease should fix it up. I think the increase in response is well worth replacing them ever few years. I would suggest saying away from the rear trailing arm poly busings tho, the is too much for a dd/hpde car. I would get the hard rubber for that one

 

poly comes in different degrees of hardness. prothane is a bit harder than energy if i remember right. as for the energy bushings. i have them on both my cars and love em. they did not make the car ride harsh but they did make it feel a little tighter. i even have the much argued lower trailing arms in my 'teg. i actually tested those the other day since some people swear they prevent proper movment. well..i could cycle the suspension by hand with the coilover out. i wouldn't really call that binding. what the LTA bushings did do is decrease tire wear on the teg and stop me from braking half shaft u joints in the vette. i think some guys read some article and just repeat it all back on here. poly bushings are a great replacement for worn rubber bushings. i really want to stress that 'worn' word. i wouldn't bother if your bushings are new, low mile or in great shape.

 

Ah great input! So I did not know that ES were a bit softer than prothane. I was considering perhaps this config then:

Front lca+uca= ES
shock mnt= ES
end link= ES

Rear lca+uca =oem
rear shock mnt=oem
RTA=(cant find any oem for this, mugen perhaps?)

But im not sure if poly in front and rubber in the rear would be pointless or advantageous.

 

The complete HardRace kit comes with the RTA bushings.

I have read several reports here on H-T of polyurethane bushings wearing out in a year or two. Those were load bearing bushings (the front LCA compliance bushing was the worst I've seen). I had poly shifter bushings (non-load bearing bushings) and those dry rotted after a few years and looked worse than the 8-year old original rubber ones that were on there before that. The round bushing at the front of the shift linkage had TONS of play and made the shifter feel sloppy. I replaced the poly ones with new OEM rubber and it felt 100x better.

I have read several other reports of the poly RTA bushings binding, and after the user switched to OE-style rubber bushings (OEM, Mugen, or HardRace) the car handled much better and was more predictable around the track.

For someone like me who mostly uses the car for street driving, not having a press, and not having a backup vehicle, replacing all the bushings every couple of years is just not an option. Not to mention I don't want to deal with having to grease all the bushings repeatedly, and the possible binding issues. That is why I will not ever put polyurethane bushings on a street car.

For a race car, polyurethane is also inferior because spherical bushings allow ZERO deflection, and still allow proper suspension movement, which is what you want in a race car. And so that is also why I would not put polyurethane bushings in a race car.

I have heard many claims of polyurethane bushings lasting longer that stock rubber bushings. That is a straight up lie, false advertising, whatever you want to call it.

From Energy Suspension's website:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The three most valuable reasons for using Energy Suspension ® polyurethane components instead of rubber components on vehicles are:
PERFORMANCE, DURABILITY and APPEARANCE.

Increases reliability and longevity.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have yet to see proof of the durability/longevity claim. The rubber bushings on my car are 14 years old. While they do need to be replaced, I'm pretty sure that 14-year old polyurethane bushings would look like complete trash compared to my stock rubber bushings.

 

Below is my friends setup on a 94-97 DC4 integra
and the thing sounds like sh*t, every bump he hits feels and sounds like the car is falling from the sky on to the road.
My friend is fed up of it but since you guys are on the bushing subject I thought maybe I'll ask if that is the reason the car sounds and feels so bad. Mind you when I drove his car it feels very responsive.

-Energy suspension polyurethane control arms bushings front/back
-Energy suspension polyurethane shocks bushings front/back
-Energy suspension polyurethane front strut rod bushings
-Energy suspension polyurethane front end links
-Energy suspension polyurethane steering rack bushings
-Energy suspension polyurethane transmission shifter stabilizer bushings
-Energy suspension ball joint and tie rod end boots
-Shocks Koni yellow
-coilsprings Tein S-tech (-2.5" front -1.8" rear)
-camber kit Progress

 

A lot of i have heard and i have read in this thread... I myself have ran poly urethane front lca bushings and rear trailing arm bushings for over 2 years without a problem. My car is extensively tracked monthly. I ended up switched all of the front bushings from rubber to full metal. Basically front upper control arm, lower control arm, compliance. Suspension deflection has gone down dramatically, turn in and response was amazing.

I know your looking to do this for a street car, so what i would recommend is Hard Race hardened rubber bushings for your front lower/upper control arm, compliance for a nice quick responsive car without too harsh of a ride.

If you are looking for a hard-race distributor, contact Jeff @ Special Projects MS. He is the west coast distributor and carries their whole line. Tell him Charles sent you.

 

If you're racing competitively, then spherical bushings are by far your best choice. However they will wear out pretty quick with road use and will have to be replace much more frequently than rubber bushings.

 

This is turning into a very imformative thread! <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .:Made in OC:. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I know your looking to do this for a street car, so what i would recommend is Hard Race hardened rubber bushings for your front lower/upper control arm, compliance for a nice quick responsive car without too harsh of a ride. </TD></TR></TABLE>


What about mugen hardened rubber bushings as opposed to hardrace? Any thoughts?

Now, I have already bought these stupid poly bushings. So Im going to try and sell them, and of course loose money. I dunno who will even buy them now haha.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .:Made in OC:. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you are looking for a hard-race distributor, contact Jeff @ Special Projects MS. He is the west coast distributor and carries their whole line. Tell him Charles sent you. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Is that his email? What would be the best way to contact him? One other point:

I did also buy the poly bushings because of the price! They are extremly cheap. To buy mugen hard rubber front lca, uca and complience bushings it would be about 265. I got ES lca, uca and comp for about 90 bucks! Even getting all oem is more expensive!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Coltmorris &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is turning into a very imformative thread!


What about mugen hardened rubber bushings as opposed to hardrace? Any thoughts?

Now, I have already bought these stupid poly bushings. So Im going to try and sell them, and of course loose money. I dunno who will even buy them now haha.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Mugens are $127 plus tax and Hard Race are $114 shipped. They both are hardened rubber. Both are probably molded from the same materials. So it pretty much comes down to what you want to do.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Coltmorris &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Is that his email? What would be the best way to contact him? One other point:

I did also buy the poly bushings because of the price! They are extremly cheap. To buy mugen hard rubber front lca, uca and complience bushings it would be about 265. I got ES lca, uca and comp for about 90 bucks! Even getting all oem is more expensive! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Call Jeff @ (714) 998-1528, let him know you got referred over by Charles w/ the blue civic sent you over. A whole FRONT AND REAR bushing package from Hard Race is $290 shipped! You definately cannot beat that price. It includes 4PCS: FRONT UPPER RH& LH 6PCS: FRONT LOWER RH& LH 4PCS: REAR CAMBER RH& LH 4PCS: REAR TOE RH& LH 6PCS: REAR LOWER ARM RH& LH 2PCS: REAR TRAILING ARM BUSH RH& LH Price Includes Shipping within the Continental USA. Why pay for mugen for double the price? unless your interesed in some mad jdm points at those car shows. http://www.specialprojectsms.c...ID=39

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .:Made in OC:. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

. A whole FRONT AND REAR bushing package from Hard Race is $290 shipped! You definately cannot beat that price. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Man, that price is incredible! I will certainly be calling Jeff this week! Thank you dude!!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .:Made in OC:. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Why pay for mugen for double the price? unless your interesed in some mad jdm points at those car shows. http://www.specialprojectsms.c...ID=39 </TD></TR></TABLE>

Man I absolutely agree. I was just considering mugen as another option, as I wasnt familiar with hardrace's products or prices.

 

dude, there is a HardRace distributor on eBay. You can get the whole kit front and rear including trailing arm bushings for about $190.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dude, there is a HardRace distributor on eBay. You can get the whole kit front and rear including trailing arm bushings for about $190.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Pretty much $230 out the door. Anyway, even if he does buy it through Jeff. He can always come back for more products and most likely get a discounted price since he's a previous customer. Jeff's a really nice guy.

 

Thanks alot for all the input guys. Hopefully I will be able to gain alot more 'hands on' experience whilst doing this build--and hopefully driving it!