Acura Integra Type-R All Integra Type R Discussions

Yet another ATS Final Drive Review

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 12:07 PM
  #1  
norice's Avatar
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,919
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Default Yet another ATS Final Drive Review

After wavering between the JDM 4.785 final drive and ATS's 4.929, I eventually decided on the ATS. The JDM final drive would probably be more civilized at highway speeds, but my car is already a noisy pain in the **** at these speeds, so I figured that I could buy ear plugs. I decided to keep the stock 1 to 5 gears. For a car driven regularly on the highway, a USDM GS-R (or even LS) 5th may make sense. The flywheel is Comptech's 6.75 lb aluminum unit, the clutch is Clutchnet's 'Kush-Lok' solid-hub disc, and the pressure plate is an ACT MaXX Xtreme.

My engine modifications are pretty mild, consisting of a Comptech intake, filter, header, cat, and exhaust. I have also removed the power steering belt, and about 120 lbs of weight.

While I generally like working on my car myself, and figured that I could probably handle the clutch, pressure plate and flywheel swap, the section in the Helms manual dealing with the inside of the transmission gave me the *******. So I decided that I would hand the car off to Jeff of http://www.hybridautomotive.com in San Jose. After watching him do the transmission internals, I'm glad I did. While it is not rocket science, working inside the transmission does require a certain knack, and some experience. Jeff does excellent work and I highly recommend him.

Comptech 6.75 lb Aluminum Flywheel

The me, the choice of the Comptech aluminum flywheel was a no brainer. It is the lightest unit out there, is race proven, and - unlike several other flywheels - there have been no reported starter grinding problems.

Surprisingly, the lighter flywheel has the least noticeable effect of all the modifications, at least initially. Tooling around town, the revs do go up and down a little more quickly than before, but not dramatically. However, I have not got on the car hard yet - I am still breaking in the clutch and my PZeros are at the sub-material. New Azenis go on tomorrow, so I might have more interesting things to say about the flywheel by the weekend.

Also somewhat surprising is that driveability is not remotely affected by the lighter flywheel. It is necessary to get on the gas a little before letting out the clutch I guess, but I have always driven this way so I did not have to make any adjustment. I initially stalled quite a few times because of the different clutch engagement point, but I have not yet stalled because of the lighter flywheel.

Clutchnet 'Kush-Lok' Clutch Disc

http://www.clutchnet.com/make/prodDesc.html#kushLok

I bought this disc because I Sgt said good things about it. This disc is full-face and has a solid hub. However, it has a compressible Marcel spring plate that allows some slippage. It weighs a feathery 1 lb 8 oz, which is lighter than ACT's 4-puck clutch, and 1 lb less than the stock disc.

This disc is excellent and works really well with the MaXX Xtreme pressure plate. It is actually possible to get a smoother engagement than stock - despite the lack of a sprung hub and the significant increase in clamping force supplied by the MaXX Xtreme. I suspect the Comptech flywheel may deserve some credit because it is much easier to rev match than before. However, when driven hard, this clutch will slam into position and provides very solid (though not harsh) engagement.

ATS 4.929 Final Drive

The ATS final drive produces the most dramatic effect of all these modifications. The car feels like it has been given a torque injection. It pulls much harder in every gear. With the firmer gear changes, and quicker revving engine, the car has an almost violent urgency under acceleration. And combined with an intake, header, cat, and exhaust, my R now feels fast rather than just quick. This is a must-have modification. Don't even think about getting the JDM 4.785 final drive. Dump a part - any part - to pay for the difference in price if you can't afford it.

There is a noticeable gear whine from the ATS unit during low-speed, low-RPM driving. (The noise may be there at highway speeds or at high RPMs but is most likely drowned out.) It's not dramatic, but it is certainly there. I like the sound, but some may find it annoying.

ACT MaXX Xtreme Pressure Plate

Be careful what you wish for. I have always wanted a really stiff clutch pedal. Well, now I have one. The initial sensation on pressing the clutch pedal was the feeling that I had stepped on a rock. After moving the seat forward, I managed to get into a position with increased leverage and tried again. The rock moved.

In addition to requiring considerably more force, the take-up point is much closer to the floor and take-up happens over a much shorter distance. Modulation is thus trickier than stock. This pressure plate is not for lazy drivers.

Strangely enough, this may be my favourite of all the modifications. I think I may be in a minority on this one, though. Most people seem to regard a low-effort clutch pedal to be a positive thing, as though the design of a high-force-multiplier hydraulic actuator were some sort of major technological achievement. To me, limp-wristed clutches are just another way of isolating the driver from the car.

However, I do think that the pedal effort with the MaXX Xtreme may be disconcerting for people who don't share my stiff-clutch-pedal fetish. One of ACT's less - em - extreme pressure plates would be better for most people. In any case, few Integras will have enough horsepower to really require the MaXX Xtreme plate.

Another issue with the MaXX Xtreme is the adjustment to 'normal' clutches. After driving with it for several hours to break it in, I hopped into my daily driver to run an errand - and promptly sent the clutch pedal slamming into the firewall. I initially thought that someone had cut the clutch line. Nearly all other clutch pedals will feel 'wrong' after driving with the MaXX Xtreme for any length of time. They will be as involving as having sex using eight rubbers after drinking the same number of beers.

Apart from slightly higher freeway RPMs, these are zero-downside modifications. The total parts cost is approximately $1500, which is not desperately cheap. In terms of bang-for-the-buck, however, these are the best modifications that I have made on my car and I regret not doing them earlier.

If you have to, sell your $1000 header and exhaust and $1500 calipers (huh?) to pay for the parts. The calipers do diddly except make your car look like a Smurf/Honda Borg, and the header and exhaust don't do a whole hell of a lot either. These modifications transform the car into a V8 killing monster! Ok, I am exaggerating. However, the effect is not subtle. The car pulls harder, revs more quickly, changes gears with more urgency, and just damn well feels more involving.
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 12:17 PM
  #2  
RTW DC2R's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 18,151
Likes: 2
From: Hollywood Babylon
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (norice)

Hell of a review!! I would love to get my hands on an ATS 4.9 FD, however I drive highway a lot in my car, and I know the higher RPM would start to **** me off as I watch the gas gauge (on 440cc injectors mind you) go down every 2 miles. Is there a HUGE difference in RPM as compared to stock, say at around 80mph?
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 12:18 PM
  #3  
AssPenny's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,236
Likes: 0
From: Texasss
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (RTW DC2)

Is there a HUGE difference in RPM as compared to stock, say at around 80mph?
About 500rpm
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 12:19 PM
  #4  
underrated99si's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,171
Likes: 0
From: SOCAL
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (norice)

Nice review verry informative. Well put
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 12:22 PM
  #5  
RTW DC2R's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 18,151
Likes: 2
From: Hollywood Babylon
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (AssPenny)

Is there a HUGE difference in RPM as compared to stock, say at around 80mph? About 500rpm
Thanks!! that doesnt sound so bad, not as bad as I thought it might be. Ill have to look into that in the near future.
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 12:28 PM
  #6  
Black R's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
25 Year Member
 
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 12,949
Likes: 8
From: Atlantis
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (norice)

If you have to, sell your $1000 header and exhaust and $1500 calipers (huh?) to pay for the parts. The calipers do diddly except make your car look like a Smurf/Honda Borg, and the header and exhaust don't do a whole hell of a lot either.

.....What if you already have the final drive and clutch/ flywheel? Is it ok to keep a $1k header and smurfy calipers then?
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 12:29 PM
  #7  
Big Teggie's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,319
Likes: 0
From: Umm..., NJ
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (RTW DC2)

Good Review

I just ordered a JDM FD, I was gonna go for the ATS but I really dont do any road racing or autocross. My car is my daily driver and I do alot of dragging. I figure the JDM FD will be enough for me and a good start if and when I get into autocross or road racing.
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 12:34 PM
  #8  
slowassR's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,463
Likes: 0
From: jacksonville, fl, us
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (Big Teggie)

Awsome review
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 12:58 PM
  #9  
norice's Avatar
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,919
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (RTW DC2)

Is there a HUGE difference in RPM as compared to stock, say at around 80mph? About 500rpm

Thanks!! that doesnt sound so bad, not as bad as I thought it might be. Ill have to look into that in the near future.
In terms of noise levels, the difference at 80 mph is not significant - a lot less than I expected. I was worried about it too.
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 01:01 PM
  #10  
Edwin's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,451
Likes: 1
From: Canada
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (norice)

Awesome review. Just the stuff I was looking into!
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 01:34 PM
  #11  
Austin's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 5,276
Likes: 0
From: Sears Point, CA
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (norice)

Sounds nice...I'll have to hit you up the next time I'm in the area...I have almost the exact same setup awaiting install...although I went with the Heavy Duty PP, and I am still awaiting a JDM FD from Japan...long story, don't ask.
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 01:52 PM
  #12  
yoshi234's Avatar
I shoot brides
 
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,904
Likes: 7
From: Catalina Island
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (norice)

great review

yshi - who mite FAQ this thread
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 01:56 PM
  #13  
norice's Avatar
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,919
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (yoshi234)

great review

yshi - who mite FAQ this thread
I should probably tone down the ATS vs. JDM final drive thing though. It was an offhand comment. The JDM drive probably makes more sense for some.
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 02:24 PM
  #14  
Junglist's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,039
Likes: 0
From: The planet farthest from
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (AssPenny)

That sucks if your engaging at 4,300.

what's the top speed at 8,400?
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 02:52 PM
  #15  
type r 01-1063's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
From: CA, USA
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (Junglist)

Wow, good things are to be expected to come for me


type r 01-1063 - waiting on my Toda High Power Clutch Kit and ATS from R&D

Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 04:08 PM
  #16  
GRM Scott's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
25 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 2,150
Likes: 7
From: FL, USA
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (type r 01-1063)

ATS rips.


5th gear with ATS and stock ITR 5th gear.



top speed is 137 i think. And it will get there in a jiffyquick.
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 04:15 PM
  #17  
Back in Black's Avatar
Rather OG
 
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,179
Likes: 0
From: Greensboro, NC
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (norice)

Performance wise, the first mod should be a final drive change, in US cars. It's by far the most noticeable, IMO.

Jason-
who enjoys taking turn 10 at Summit in 4th
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 04:25 PM
  #18  
1GreyTeg's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,136
Likes: 2
From: kuidaore
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (norice)



The ATS/4.929 ROCKS!!!! Hands down...

Nice review, Oh, and nice review of the other stuff too.

Good luck,

A.

Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 04:50 PM
  #19  
Dr Pooface's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,514
Likes: 1
From: Vancity, b.c, CANADA
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (norice)

Nice review.

Surprisingly, the lighter flywheel has the least noticeable effect of all the modifications, at least initially. Tooling around town, the revs do go up and down a little more quickly than before, but not dramatically.
The difference will become more noticable while rev matching in vtec.

There is a noticeable gear whine from the ATS unit during low-speed, low-RPM driving. (The noise may be there at highway speeds or at high RPMs but is most likely drowned out.) It's not dramatic, but it is certainly there. I like the sound, but some may find it annoying.
Nice to see someone else had the whine. Mine faded after a while, I can barely notice it now.


Enjoy the mods!
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 05:12 PM
  #20  
1GreyTeg's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,136
Likes: 2
From: kuidaore
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (Ddub)

We ALL have the whine,,,

Good to see so many Converts!
It is one of the MOST cost effective performance mods when concerning how to accelerate quicker.


A.
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 07:46 PM
  #21  
Warren's Avatar
Wrong-Way Wang
 
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,168
Likes: 0
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (Jason Franza)

You're supposed to take it in 4th even with a USDM FD

Warren
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 08:13 PM
  #22  
disordeR's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,809
Likes: 0
From: CA, usa
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (Warren)

AWESOME review.. makes me want an ATS final drive now...
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 08:31 PM
  #23  
acura_typer's Avatar
Banned
 
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 921
Likes: 0
From: HTown, TX, US
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (1GreyTeg)

It is one of the MOST cost effective performance mods when concerning how to accelerate quicker.
A.
No wonder so many RWD V8 crowd people pay the 200 bux for a really high rear gear. Too bad the import parts aren't equally priced.
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 10:15 PM
  #24  
Tweakmeister's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,536
Likes: 1
From: Edgewater, MD / La Jolla, CA
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (acura_typer)

does anyone have any 0-60 numbers on these?

Reply
Old Jul 17, 2002 | 10:26 PM
  #25  
Rob :190:'s Avatar
Member
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 5,980
Likes: 0
From: Charlotte, NC, USA
Default Re: Yet another ATS Final Drive Review (Tweakmeister)

does anyone have any 0-60 numbers on these?

I'd be curious as well, I've always wondered what the affects would be when say that silly S2000 is riding your *** again...
Reply



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:02 AM.