the new porsche 997 has twin variable pitch turbos for vastly reduced lag and massive top end, they can go 190+ out the box.. the turbines change thier pitch depending o the driving conditions to make it the most efficient @t all times

why doesent the big turbo companies (garret borg warner and such) get into development of these for aftermarket turbos..

think of a gt42R that spools like a 3076R SFWD trim cars would def hit 8's after that...

i know this technology has been around for a lil while im just bringing it to light again

oh yah heres the porsche review..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6Pq_mm9BHI


Modified by THEDirtyDseriesWOOT at 11:02 PM 12/30/2007

 

guess not

 

I has been around for a while for diesel engines.
But a reliable one for gasoline engines wasn't available until now, because of the high EGT's.
Borg Warner made the one for the Porsche.
It probably is very expensive.

 

at one time i think when they first came out,they were called the
VATICAN turbo.i will check the book and see,but anyway very nice and VERY DAM EXSPENSIVE.

 

Some people have gone the cheaper route and put a diverter/butterfly over one side of a divided-housing turbo. I recall one instance where a v6 got 8psi at the 6500rpm redline (wastegate never opened), then blocked off one of the sides and got 10psi by 4300rpm. Since a variable vane is designed to alter the effective A/R of the housing, a butterfly or swing-valve to cover one of the inlets would do the same thing. People just whine that it gets too hot for the metal, despite turbo manufacturers using steel for the wastegate - which sees the same temps.

I've actually been thinking about this lately. A chunk of 321 stainless made into a solid flapper (machined 'pins' at the bottom ends) would do fine for the heat, and would need little more than OEM-style wastegate actuator set to just below full boost.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nitrousballa &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">at one time i think when they first came out,they were called the
VATICAN turbo.i will check the book and see,but anyway very nice and VERY DAM EXSPENSIVE.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes but as all things go the older the technology gets the cheaper it can be manufactured..

if we can dump 2500+into just our turbos in matter of time we will be able to afford it.. well the people wo are gonna want to use this technology(people in the competitive racing) like you Rota.. money isnt an object when it comes to winning..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rota92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My truck has one, and at 2k when the vanes switch you can feel a massive increase in power. Just as if the truck had vtec actually haha

I have looked at aftermarket replacements for it with the same variable vanes and its ummmm not cheap lol

I'm sure it's just a matter of time, but as you can see from the BW stuff there are still advances in just conventional wheel technology to still squeeze out of turbos for gasoline apps.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yah if anyone comes out with it it will be borg warner those guys have some talented engineers working there

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by THEDirtyDseriesWOOT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

if we can dump 2500+into just our turbos in matter of time we will be able to afford it.. well the people wo are gonna want to use this technology(people in the competitive racing) like you Rota.. money isnt an object when it comes to winning..</TD></TR></TABLE>


it's different when you have 5 kids.......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by THEDirtyDseriesWOOT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why doesent the big turbo companies (garret borg warner and such) get into development of these for aftermarket turbos..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6Pq_mm9BHI


Modified by THEDirtyDseriesWOOT at 11:02 PM 12/30/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>


I think garrett has been and is already in the process.

 

I don't know.... 5=a big welfare payout per month. They are always the ones in the walmart line getting Doritos, Tbones, and Tropicana, while I work 12 hours a day and buy Super Cheesy corn chips, butt-round, and orange drink.

Gotta tap the gubment and go racing man!!!

 

Yah they work great, most just need a simple PWM input to control the hotside.

All the modern variable vane turbine turbos are rated for gasoline EGTs. Blundar and I toerrorized an awful nice Garrett rep by the name of Kyle Snyder @ the PRI show, he dropped ~30 minutes of his time on us and readily offered up any information we asked about and that was the #1 topic of conversation.

Garrett will be releasing a performance aftermarket VGT-style turbo in the next 2 years, but expect the intial prices to be insane just like the original GT-series prices were. Within 5-6 years they should be competitively priced like GT-series are currently.

Dave Peters at Over The Top Motorsports in Knoxville TN has built a car or two with huge VGT turbos, used a Greddy Profec on one of them and an AVC-R on the other to control the turbine side.

 

isnt the RDX turbo similiar in design?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted k20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">isnt the RDX turbo similiar in design?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Similar, it has a large A/R housing with a built-in swing-valve (diff from the idea I posted) to increase the A/R at higher rpm.

The Shelby version of the Dodge Chargers used VNT turbos, but they weren't that big. They used no wastegate, instead it was just a very large A/R housing with a wastegate actuator that moved the vanes as boost went up. The key to the gateless setup is to have a turbo in which full-open is too large to spool the turbo from 0 psi.

BTW I was looking at materials, and you'd need 321 SS if it was welded, but 316 SS would be fine if it was machined from 1 piece. If I ever get an HX35, I'll be calling in a favor w/my machine shop owner friend. The welded valve below should be 321, since 304/316 SS has issues with the weld if its held at 700C for extended periods. Ideally, I'd say you'd want a valve that goes from closed/joining both cyl banks to opened/divding both cyl banks. The type I'm dreaming of is angled at 60* when closed, and in-line with the turbine's divider when opened.

 

Looks like a lot of expletiveing around to accomplish nothing special.

 

having a turbo that can make 800+ spool like a 500 hp turbo is def soethin ok im drunk srty i i cant type ... im drunk and not trying to throw up/....

 

It's already twin scroll, are you going to gain more spool by choking flow or by eliminating reversion?

There's only so much energy available and the turbo's rotating assembly weighs what it weights... drop some of it across the increased turbine restriction and encourage reversion (aka loss of available exhaust energy) or use what is there efficiently?

Besides, if you can afford everything that an 800 whp entails then a nitrous kit is pretty cheap.

 

I priced a VGT turbo for a new 911 turbo and even with my discount( I work for Porsche) i was like $3500.
No wastegate is needed, because boost is controlled by the angle of the blades.
The new GT2 turbo was a little over $4k.
I agree it would be awesome to have instant spool at 2000 rpms and flow enough to make big numbers.
FYI- The new 911 turbo makes 505 ft/lbs of TQ at 1950 rpms and carries it to 5000 rpms (in overboost mode). Its a 3.6L engine, so theoretically one turbo is sized perfectly for a GSR/LS/LSVTEC. Turbo lag? Whats that?

 

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by THEDirtyDseriesWOOT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">having a turbo that can make 800+ spool like a 500 hp turbo is def soethin ok im drunk srty i i cant type ... im drunk and not trying to throw up/....</TD></TR></TABLE>

I enjoyed this post ^ lmao!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by THEDirtyDseriesWOOT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> ok im drunk srty i i cant type ... im drunk and not trying to throw up/....</TD></TR></TABLE>

that's nothing new. hahaha

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muad’Dib &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

that's nothing new. hahaha </TD></TR></TABLE>

hehe you know it Jay

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted k20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">isnt the RDX turbo similiar in design?</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's exactly what the new RDX turbocharger uses. This technology in physical use is not that new, just in the way that the computer/emissions systems of the ECU interact with it to make it as efficient as possible. Cost is still a huge factor when it comes to making hardware for the turbocharger, and as of now, neither Garrett nor Borg-Warner see the point in making this available to the aftermarket simply because of the cost it takes to make just ONE unit, and does not see it as profitable. Back in about 1998, at Honeywell, there was somewhat of a resurgance of using this technology in a wider spanned market, by experiment with different compounds of materials to make the "channels", development and testing of the compressor housing to ensure efficiency in both areas in which the channels were both closed and open, design schematics, metrics, etc.. It just became a bit mess when considered in mass production, so instead they used a slightly mass-produced "lean" manufacturing process, so they could make above margin. This is why the RDX, and new TSX will now have these as standard in their turbocharger applications. But don't hold your breath for it to become available in a variety of sizes for about 10 years or so at the least.

 

Holset has these turbos available. I actually have one right behind me on the shelf..lol its FHUGEEE!! Get them from work we use them on the new Cummins EPA 08 Engines in the Class A Motor homes. Dont know a whole lot about them but the Cummins Guys are A pumped up about using them now.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by melovesboost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Holset has these turbos available. I actually have one right behind me on the shelf..lol its FHUGEEE!! Get them from work we use them on the new Cummins EPA 08 Engines in the Class A Motor homes. Dont know a whole lot about them but the Cummins Guys are A pumped up about using them now. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Right, this explains a lot, though, since the OEM production is far more useful and profitable (for turbo companies) than the aftermarket. Cummings diesel guys are indeed pumped about it, and know that most tractor supply, and other master WD guys can pick them up from Holset.

 

Ahh im bored so i pulled it off the shelf and snapped some pix. I do not have the Control cover on. but there is a 5 wire hook up that goes on this to control averything.

Vband Housings
3" Vband for the Downpipe.
Intake 4" Intake outlet " 2.5"
Vband for the Intake Outlet. there is also a Intake A Temp on the Intake Housing.
This is the Coating that is put on by Cummins