a line on another post popped this subject in my head. any advice from the more seasoned racers out there on how to handle a rolling start? some general do's and don'ts of defending and moving up.

not looking to hear cliche's like "you cant win a race on the start but you can lose a race at the start" or "the first corner is the most dangerous corner of a race" looking for practical advice guys.

on the other note, anyone else get the biggest RUSH of a rolling start? hearing those loudass rotaries, trying to predict the flagger for the green, edging the guy next to you to claim your spot while (legally) blocking any illegitimate pass while youre worried about all the cars in front of you to see if theres any trouble and thinking of alternate safe routes. man, what a thrill!

 

I always try to get to the inside of turn 1, as that seems to be worth more than any jump if you are stuck to the outside of the turn. This isn't just for safety (being on the inside means there is no risk of another car being inside of you and hitting you when they don't slow enough for the turn), but you usually get a better run out of the turn and can advance position. I think Giles is the one who got stuck on the outside of the train coming through turn 1 and dropped a couple of spots for that reason. In terms of the jump at the start, when in doubt, select the lower gear, and punch it the instant you see any movement from the flag station.

Matt

 

Tyson:

I got some good advice on my upgrade race this last weekend...

Most turn workers have been trained to hold the flags furled in a certain way. If the starter holds the flag tucked under his/her arm before the wave, look for the elbow to move up a split second before it gets displayed. (DrAg sKiLz Yo)

If it's a good elevated stand, you sould be able to see it. Although it may be hard back in row 15...

Greg

(EDIT)
[Modified by bulldog_RS20, 8:55 PM 6/4/2002]


[Modified by bulldog_RS20, 9:15 PM 6/4/2002]

 

Advice?
Go that way reeally fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

Sorry, couldn't help it.

 

Tyson,
I watched my videos from Laguna and I learned that being in the back the green was out before I got through 11. The front pack was already gone. Next time I'll just punch it as soon as I get out of 11. Video from my sister's camera up in the pagoda shows Beckwith and the leaders were greeen and racing when I exited 11. From what I hear (opinion from a freind), with 60 car fields at laguna time is ticking, so the stewards are going to throw the green and just single out the driver's who jump the start.
My advice for us in the back, go go go as soon as you round the last turn.

G

 

If you're in the back and can't see the green, look for the nearest workers. When the yellow drops, the green is out. That, or buy a radio and bring a friend.

 

I always try to keep both hands on the wheel, one hand on the shifter, one foot ready on the gas, one foot covering the brake, one foot covering the clutch, my eyes are on the flag stand, the tach, the rear view mirror, the guy in front of me and on the guy next to me....if you can do all of that, its easy

Seriously, watch the starts prior to your race, the starter often throws the flag at about the same spot all day. Unless you're on the front row, be more concerned with keeping pace relative to everyone around you instead of when the flag will be actually be thrown. If everyone starts picking their speed up, keep pace with them. When you think "damn he's got to throw it now" GO! If you're wrong, keep the throttle down and hold the car back with some left foot brake (nice little brake fake for the guys behind you too) until you see the starter's arm start to move, then GO! If your buried mid-pack or later, you probably will never see the green; just keep pace and go with the flow. Watchout for stacking if guys ahead of you jump early and then back off. The inside of the first corner is preferable.... but if everyone else is thinking the same thing, there will be a log jam on the inside leaving a nice clean route around the outside. I've stolen numerous positions this way, but I've gotten run into the grass too if guys on the inside start spinning.

Just take it easy and SURVIVE your first few starts. Then work on not losing any positions. Then work on maintaining your position. Then after you get the hang of it, you may even pick up a spot or two. It just takes time to get used to the butterflies and figure out the timing of the starts.

 

Good topic. I can't say I'm good at starts, but lately it's been working well or maybe I'm just getting lucky. You can take a start many different ways from mild to wild, but of course the wilder you go the more risks you're taking. You have to be able to judge when it's worth risking more and when it's not.

For a mild race start: If you're in the back of the pack, keep your eye on the flagger if he/she comes into view. If you’re far enough back of the pack the people around will either already be going WOT before you see the flagger or will be sleeping with their eyes glued on the cars in front of them and not notice the green, so just go anyway. Mid pack, keep track of where the guys are behind you and keep the inside line even if it means not gaining any positions. Starting towards the front, you'll be driving with you eyes glued in the mirror and just defend the inside if possible. Be ready to go 10/10ths on the opening lap. For a race restart, just as someone already said, look for the yellow flags to drop, or the green if you're in sight.

For wild race starts: It helps to know if you're getting a late or early green and also who is behind you and how they start. I know it may not be viewed as "legal", but let me just say that whoever takes a "good" start also *jumps* the green. It does happen a lot and almost always you get away with it if you don’t make it really obvious and you're not in the front rows. If you start from the back it helps to have a radio and as soon as you hear green you GO. Pass over the curbs, 2 wheels on the grass, whatever you have to do, but just go because the guys around you will *not* go when you hear green over the radio. You can gain countless positions this way. Mid pack, drop back a little to create a buffer. Again you have to go before the green and use this buffer to get a run on the guy in front and it also gives you time think whether to go left or right. Always keep a mental picture of exactly what is going on around and behind you at all times. Pass on the outside if you know you can make it. If you're stuck on the outside on turn 1 it's ok, just keep going along side and it might put you on the inside of T2. Another thing, be ready to out brake people because the majority of people always brake too early and too much for T1 because they use their normal brake points. Remember on the first lap you are entering T1 at a slower speed than on a regular hot lap, so you can really go in deep. If you're set for a wild start, you can't always aim for the inside of T1. Your goal is to pick up positions and a good number of times that puts you on the outside. Just keep up your speed and hold your line beside the other guy. Most of the time the second corner will give you the inside and you can pass there. For a wild single race restart, again drop back and “jump” (I wish there was another word I could use!) the start. Still, if the guys in front of you are not sleeping the most you can usually do in a single file is to make up one position by T1. Having a radio helps a LOT if you don't see the flagger. Don't be afraid to pass people just because they are still putting around not knowing the green is out. To set things straight, my definition of “jump” means to get WOT before the green drops, *not* to start passing cars before the green drops.

Some general things to do for any start is to always have your hand on your shifter. Also do everything you can to make sure you have hot tires and brakes. Some people forget this and they either take the first few turns after a green slower than usual, or they try to go fast, but either the tires or the brakes aren't there. You want to be able to go 100% after the green and not worry about cold tires and brakes. A personal preference for me is to always have my left foot over the brakes for at least the first couple of laps and also almost always when in traffic in any condition. Even if I have to downshift for a turn, mid turn I always switch my feet around to have my left foot over the brakes. You can really react quicker like this, but do it only if you're ok with left foot braking. This won't fool the veterans, but some evil tips with left foot braking to throw off some people is before the green, just play with the brake light as the green drops and you might get a small jump on the guy behind you. Also as you get close to T1 light up your brake lights as you're still going WOT. This also works sometimes to get the guy on your bumper to fall back just a tad when he/she sees you braking, giving you more breathing room for T1 from behind to concentrate on what’s in front. Also remember, unless you're in the top 5 overall, the entire first lap everyone is going slowly, so there are many places to pick up spots on that first lap. Just be smart and decisive and it usually works out.

Sorry for the boring post, but this is actually a very good topic that I haven’t seen before. We don't usually talk about this and we all do it differently, so it's nice to learn from each other as long as we're willing to give away our secrets. Worst start I took was during a single file restart when I lost a couple of positions because I was stuck behind a slower car hoping to get the inside. I did get it but that was after getting passed on the outside. Best start I had was at roebling where we started 1st in class 11th overall and by turn 1 we were 5th overall. All the passes came on the front straight after a car in front fell asleep at the green. Combined that with a good run (read: jumped the green a little) and drafted behind a BMW (who also had a "good run"), we went by 3 rows. The last row came pretty close since I had to go just about four wheels on the grass towards the end of the straight where it narrows down. For those who haven't been there, the front straight gets really narrow before T1 at roebling! I have that race only in vhs format, but here's a decently wild start from last year's arrc that I posted some time ago. Note that I was pretty conservative not charging in T3, since the race was after all an endurance race (even though some of the other guys might not see it the same way). We didn't gain much, but at least we also didn't loose any positions. http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gte231u/ARRCstart.mpg


[Modified by Hracer, 7:27 PM 6/4/2002]

 

Good strand and excellent information. Matt beat me to the "get to the inside" thing, which is the most reliable course of action. Personally, I think that lots of games, trying to anticipate the start and such, will foul you up as often as it works in your favor. I vote for following the herd and maintaining your line while the world bobs and weaves around you...

I think the idea of a NASCAR competition yellow about 1/2 way through most road races would be a good thing - another start!

Kirk

 

I've been through a handful of rolling starts, and I've only seen the green flag fly once! The only advice I have is that if you're in a similar situation and can't see the starter stand, be very aware of what others around you are doing. I've been able to get jumps on a few other drivers in my races just be hearing/seeing others ahead getting on the gas.

OTOH, I've been somewhat of a pansy going into turn 1 once or twice. Not wanting to wreck or scrape paint and trying to set up the apex perfectly, I've watched a couple drivers dive on the inside of me and take away position. I gave them plenty of space, and in hindsight, it would have been easy to prevent them doing it just by moving over a little.

Cliff notes: *****-out on the start (be wary of your surroundings), defend going into turn 1.

 

Corey loves Race Starts, standing or rolling, Torque rules!

 

Qualify on the inside row. Especially if turn 1 is a slow 90 degree type turn. See... this stuff is easy .

My plan for the rolling start at CMP was to NOT get hung out to dry on the outside. Green flag dropped, I floored it, and had nowhere to go. The inside row immediately packed in nose to tail and I lost 3 spots before turn 2.
On Sunday I started on the inside row and things were much easier. MUCH easier.

Oh... my point here.

I actually figured I'd get the door slammed on me at the start, and I had a "plan B." Basically I just got in line, got in rythym, and started picking off the cars that had passed me in turn 1. As Alex mentioned above, the first couple of laps are tight in traffic, so nobody in my class was running away from me.
Stay calm, have a game plan, and don't force things. Losing spots on the start sucks, but wrecking because you were forcing a pass on cold tires sucks worse.

 

OMG is that ever true!!! I was directly behind Corey for the standing start on Sunday. I got a great jump and he still walked away from my *** like I was in a mud puddle.

 

Unless you're one of the leading cars, then it's as fast as you can go.

If you're further back though, things back up especially if you're in a group with mixed cars. A car that is faster over a whole qualifying lap may really hold people up on certain parts of the track.

Alex made a lot of good points in his message. Watching the other starts and getting an idea of where the starter is throwing the flag is important.

I'd also add... keep an eye on your tach and know where your RPM's are. If you start around a bunch of louder cars (read Rotory's) you can't hear your car and it's tough to even feel. There's nothing worse than anticipating the flag, getting an awesome start only to bounce off the rev limiter and watch the whole field pull away while you're looking for a gear (been there).

Resist the temptation to move slightly out of line to see the flag. That's a quick way to get a black flag and a short chat with a steward while your competition puts a lap on you.

 

And then if they throw a late green I guess you're screwed. And as for watching corner workers they sometimes aren't always on the ball (don't get the call, ignore the call, etc) and don't always drop the yellow when the green flies. My suggestion is a radio and a friend, best way to do it.

 

Just remember that you Don't Want To Lose Any Postion ... that's the key.

 

Survey Says : MASH IT!!!

 

That's true and can sometimes hit you by surprise exactly how fast the first lap pace really is. That's one of the things I'm still working on: going 10/10ths+ on the first lap. We don’t get much practice at being right behind the pace car here in the sediv since ITA is always mixed with ITS (unlike in some other regions!!), so the first lap is rarely 10/10ths. But in both road atlanta races (not the arrc) we did last year I could see that pace car and the starts showed it as I never gained any positions. One race we started on the inside of the 2nd row where I lost an overall position by the end of the first lap simply because I wasn't ready to go fast enough on the first lap. The other race we started on the 3rd row, but at least I improved and we didn't lose any positions that time. And the radio really came into play at the second race for the restarts since we had a huge 72 cars field (that was right at the track limit) and I was never in sight of the green.

I have to agree that if you're starting back far enough watching the corner workers at the other stations to drop the yellow is a pretty good idea. It doesn’t really matter if the green is given out 1-2 seconds before the yellows fall, since the rule is that if they are still holding the yellow for whatever reason, you still can not pass the car in front of you anyway. So just wait and as soon as they drop it you're good to go. Having a radio is also not *essential* by any means, unless you have certain goals set for that race. I remember one of my first races was at Daytona with a 91 car field. We didn't really care how many positions we lost or won on the restarts since we were just there to have a good time with everyone and learn that track (and visit the beach). So basically if you don't care too much about coming in 1st place, just play it safe and take off when everyone else around you does at the starts (just as someone else mentioned earlier).


[Modified by Hracer, 4:43 PM 6/5/2002]

 

all three of us start at the exact same time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! pretty bad *** if you axe me YO!!!

http://www.carolinahondas.com/events.../CMPstart.mpeg

 

werd! standing starts are cool. I'll be the first to ask, what are some tips for standing starts?? I had no game plan other than to take off without smoking the tires (and have people point at me) once the green is out. Is it really that simple or can standing starts get real deep in theory? lol Forgot one more thing, I like standing starts because they're fun.

 

Good stuff !!

 

[Modified by Super7, 3:40 PM 6/5/2002]

 

I was dreading the standing start at CMP so bad.. How could a open diff/2600 lb car beat a 2300lb GSR and 1700lb EP crx of the line... I thought everyone was going to kill me, I don't know what happened, but my car just hooked up! I can't wait till the standing starts at summit, where I can actually get my car moving before T1 comes up... Anyways, I love standing starts

 

Standing starts can get complicated...this is the main skill developed in drag racing, since there's not too much to shifting, etc.

 

I learned that my car sucks at standing starts. My motor has all of it's giddy-up on the top end.

2630 pounds + No Torque = Bad Standing Start.

Still... I liked the standing start better than the rolling one. Before the race a bunch of folks seemed to be terrified about it (Blake was convinced Corey and I were going to run over him before turn 1). After the race, everyone seemed to have really enjoyed it. Especially the spectators.

Scott, who needs to ditch the OEM clutch if we're gonna keep doing this.