I am in the process of building a T4/SFWD Honda. I've researched almost everything and pretty much know what I want. The only thing I'm wondering about is whether or not I should O-ring or not O-ring my block or head while it's at the machine shop being sleeved.

I'ved PMed many people on here, I've called many race shops, and I've talked to plenty of big name and local machinists. It seems like they are all split on the idea of O-ringing the block or head. I seem to get a lot of opinions rather than data. Is it all about preference?? I know big power V8s have been doing it for decades but it's also dinosaur technology.

What are the advantages or disadvantages to a O-ringed block/head?? What are the advantages or disadvantages to a flat decked block or head??

What do you all run, O-ringed or flat deck?? How long has your setup lasted w/o blowing a headgasket?? What type of headgasket do you all use??

I've tried to find threads, I've tried to read up general information but as we all know what may work for one type motor may not work for a honda. I've even written up this thread twice and decided not to post it but now I just don't know. Maybe I'm looking into too deep but I don't think so.

 

we run Golden Eagle HD blocks with copper o ring + stock over bore headgasket .

have been through numerous dyno pulls/track sesions with no headgasket problems. 800+ whp all day long

we also run these in "street " engines with no problems.

 

If you've talked to a lot of people and have heard of good experiences both ways, i'm sure you'll be ok with or without o rings.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you've talked to a lot of people and have heard of good experiences both ways, i'm sure you'll be ok with or without o rings.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Perfectly said!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you've talked to a lot of people and have heard of good experiences both ways, i'm sure you'll be ok with or without o rings.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah I'm a perfectionist when it comes down to certain things. I figured that already but it's still in the back of my mind. Just hoping I'm making the right decision.

 

The sleeves on a stock honda block stick up 4 thousanths higher then the surrounding deck..Honda does this for a reason,,,extra clamping and sealing around the headgasket.

So,if you are going to run a flat deck block i would definitly use the copper O-ring for the extra sealing. I had numerous customers that started <U>turning up</U> the boost on those Z10 blocks with no o rings,and popped numerous gaskets,once they o ringed the block no problems.

If its an open deck block such as Benson,Golden eagle,the sleeves are usually machined 4 to 5 thousanths higher,so with a stock gasket you should have no problems..

Just my opinions and experiences.Good Luck

 

erl just left my sleeves up a few thousands to seal the combustion chamber better.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Aggressive Racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The sleeves on a stock honda block stick up 4 thousanths higher then the surrounding deck..Honda does this for a reason,,,extra clamping and sealing around the headgasket.

So,if you are going to run a flat deck block i would definitly use the copper O-ring for the extra sealing. I had numerous customers that started <U>turning up</U> the boost on those Z10 blocks with no o rings,and popped numerous gaskets,once they o ringed the block no problems.

If its an open deck block such as Benson,Golden eagle,the sleeves are usually machined 4 to 5 thousanths higher,so with a stock gasket you should have no problems..

Just my opinions and experiences.Good Luck

</TD></TR></TABLE>


Benson block are always machined flat. We have seen where leaving the sleeves up actually slightly warps the head. Since you are running a steel gasket on a steel sleeve, flat is what has worked for us.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ninesecrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Benson block are always machined flat. We have seen where leaving the sleeves up actually slightly warps the head. Since you are running a steel gasket on a steel sleeve, flat is what has worked for us.</TD></TR></TABLE>

6 yrs numerous motors never had a warped head unless it overheated.
But,,,like i said MY experinces..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ninesecrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Benson block are always machined flat. We have seen where leaving the sleeves up actually slightly warps the head. Since you are running a steel gasket on a steel sleeve, flat is what has worked for us.</TD></TR></TABLE>

almost 10 years of sleeving for us with step deck no problems no warped heads and we also offer a copper oring for turbo blocks it just helps them seal all that much better

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Aggressive Racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The sleeves on a stock honda block stick up 4 thousanths higher then the surrounding deck..Honda does this for a reason,,,extra clamping and sealing around the headgasket.

So,if you are going to run a flat deck block i would definitly use the copper O-ring for the extra sealing. I had numerous customers that started <U>turning up</U> the boost on those Z10 blocks with no o rings,and popped numerous gaskets,once they o ringed the block no problems.

If its an open deck block such as Benson,Golden eagle,the sleeves are usually machined 4 to 5 thousanths higher,so with a stock gasket you should have no problems..

Just my opinions and experiences.Good Luck

</TD></TR></TABLE>


Depends on how you guys test them for being warped? It has been tested by the Automotive engineering society that leaving them up can warp the head. Not saying it is a definite, just going on some cases I have seen testing that has been done. A steel o ring with a copper gasket works really well too.

BTW, I have never seen any Honda block that leaves the sleeves up 4 thou. from the factory. I have about 45 core motors on hand in my shop and the proper tools to measure this as well if you do not believe me

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Golden Eagle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

almost 10 years of sleeving for us with step deck no problems no warped heads and we also offer a copper oring for turbo blocks it just helps them seal all that much better </TD></TR></TABLE>

I got my block sleeved by these guys and they talked me into it last year, it just being added safety.

go for it. there is less chance of a leakage!

 

i have never even seen one head warp from step decking and i agree with you Honda blocks are not step decked from factory step decking is just a performance way of decking the block so they seal better

 

the stepdeck will put the block and head in a bind... and will mess up all your bores cam bore crank and so on......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Golden Eagle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i agree with you Honda blocks are not step decked from factory step decking is just a performance way of decking the block so they seal better </TD></TR></TABLE>

I stand corrected,just got off the phone with my machinist,and they are not step decked from factory..

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Fabman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the stepdeck will put the block and head in a bind... and will mess up all your bores cam bore crank and so on......</TD></TR></TABLE>

I guess im one of the lucky ones.

 

like i said we have ben doing stepdeck for almost 10 years no problems and on most of our pro blocks like bergenholtz bisi and gardella when he ran Honda's asked for a 6tho step deck and they love it also most high end sportcars run stepdeck

 

if your happy i am happy.....it still not right

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Aggressive Racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I stand corrected,just got off the phone with my machinist,and they are not step decked from factory..

I guess im one of the lucky ones.</TD></TR></TABLE>

along with all our customers that never have any problems with the step deck

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Fabman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if your happy i am happy.....it still not right</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is exactly right...

But the bottom line like I was saying, if you had the tools to measure exactly what goes on, you would see the imperfection with it. But if it works for you and others thats great

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ninesecrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That is exactly right...

But the bottom line like I was saying, if you had the tools to measure exactly what goes on, you would see the imperfection with it. But if it works for you and others thats great </TD></TR></TABLE>

come on bro you know we have all the proper tools here we have tested this and ran them for years binson did to maybe he don't now but he did and there is no problems with them i mean come on bergenholtz has like a 6 tho step deck and runs 7 sec 1/4 miles no head problems and if your going to say its on Honda blocks only gardela ran 6 tho on his to no problems and so does eric delrosario and bisi no problems and they check there heads all the time and put there engines threw more then most of us do there is no problem with step decking

 

ok why is there torque plates for honing and valve jobs.....were do you think that 6tho is going or doing to the mains!!!!! or the heads...cam bores

 

You guys are funny. Regardless of what happens on paper or in theory, or even in reality, TONS of people have run step decks with no problems, so it's dumb to argue about it....

 

ok i give

 

nut swinger..

 

whats that