Modified by mike93eh2 at 5:32 PM 11/7/2006

 

if it was me I would get the head surfaced and use some new studs , I heard the GE ones are better than arp's and also abes ones to , 80ftlbs sounds quite high on a single cam to me but I could be wrong though iam more into the B series

 

80lbs of torque is high as hell. thats what did on my first setup, but then i eventually called them up and they said that it was 65lbs or somewhere around that i can't remember. ever since i change my gasket and torque them to around 65 it was fine. .

 

the timing seems pretty high to me, was it tuned on race gas? that would make more sense. I have only heard good things from super daves tuning

 

I would run quite a bit less timing than that on a 400hp D. like 4-6* less at 12psi as long as the egts stayed OK.

Why do your boost columns stop at 12 if you are running 22psi? are you sure thats your tune?

 

From those pictures...it looked like you are only pusing 12.1 psi max. Switch to a 3bar view...so we can see the whole thing.

 

yea what they said...we cant see the entire map. The head lift is probably most definately from too much timing unless you just dont have a flat surface in the first place. The timing looks way high for 12psi and pump, but on race gas it seems a little more feasable.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yea what they said...we cant see the entire map. The head lift is probably most definately from too much timing unless you just dont have a flat surface in the first place. The timing looks way high for 12psi and pump, but on race gas it seems a little more feasable. </TD></TR></TABLE>

dido, bring it back or you going to be changing gaskets daily like Kelly does..

 

He is using race gas guys so those numbers seem about right. He is FULLY built though so timing can really go anywhere with how well the head flows. And to someone finally posting a map with timing GOING UP at the end. I'm sick of the one number timing values till redline .

Anyway, the 80ft/lbs sounds high but how are you lubing the threads. If it's with regular oil then the ft/.lbs will be higher then ARP's moly lube. Call them up and ask about this, they are quick and helpful. Also take a picture of you pistons and we'll be able to spot detonation; it's pretty obvious if you are able to lift a head with detonation.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ELSpool &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dido, bring it back or you going to be changing gaskets daily like Kelly does..</TD></TR></TABLE>

haha...got a kick out of that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bailhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would run quite a bit less timing than that on a 400hp D. like 4-6* less at 12psi as long as the egts stayed OK.

Why do your boost columns stop at 12 if you are running 22psi? are you sure thats your tune?</TD></TR></TABLE>same here, timing is way to high and I dont seehow its ranning 20psi on a stock MAP

 

timing is fine. i already talked to suprdave. i was just over speculating. i shouldnt have posted it.

yes im running race gas.
yes this entire engine is as built as it can be built.
yes im running 22 psi. sorry didnt get the whole map in there.

the first time the head was torqued to 70 ft lbs with arp lube. the second time it was torqued to 80 with oil.

i think im just running too much boost for it. its hitting 25psi on my gauge. im going to try some of that one sealer ****, forget what its called, used on formula 1 cars. if that doesnt work, im thinking about getting the head o-ringed. what do you think?

pistons look perfect, and there is no detonation AT ALL. hell i just got suprdave tuned!

the block was decked, head was milled, and brand new oem mls gasket, arp's


Modified by mike93eh2 at 8:49 PM 11/6/2006

 

when you put the new headgasket on did you give the engine 10 heat cycles before putting boost to it? I have a 350whp d16y8 and I torqued my arp's to 75 with moly lube, ran 10 heat cycles with NO boost and retorqued them to 85 and I have zero head lift and pushing NO coolant.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by perlmeister8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">when you put the new headgasket on did you give the engine 10 heat cycles before putting boost to it? I have a 350whp d16y8 and I torqued my arp's to 75 with moly lube, ran 10 heat cycles with NO boost and retorqued them to 85 and I have zero head lift and pushing NO coolant. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i could try that.. but 350ehp and 403whp is a big difference with a d-series.

but what do you guys think of using soe helemar (sp?) on the headgasket... or maybe o-ringing the head

 

Hylomar

http://www.hylomar-usa.com/?si...72074

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike93eh2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">timing is fine. i already talked to suprdave. i was just over speculating. i should have posted it.

yes im running race gas.
yes this entire engine is as built as it can be built.
yes im running 22 psi. sorry didnt get the whole map in there.

the first time the head was torqued to 70 ft lbs with arp lube. the second time it was torqued to 80 with oil.

i think im just running too much boost for it. its hitting 25psi on my gauge. im going to try some of that one sealer ****, forget what its called, used on formula 1 cars. if that doesnt work, im thinking about getting the head o-ringed. what do you think?

pistons look perfect, and there is no detonation AT ALL. hell i just got suprdave tuned!
</TD></TR></TABLE>

So can we see the timing maps?

What kind of gas are you running?

Besides being reassured by your tuner, how do you <U>know</U> it's not knocking? Since it has sleeves and stuff the weak link could be the gasket and some minor knock could have popped it. I'm sure suprdave can tune really well but I am just curious.

 

You are running WAY too much timing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bailhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So can we see the timing maps?

What kind of gas are you running?

Besides being reassured by your tuner, how do you <U>know</U> it's not knocking? Since it has sleeves and stuff the weak link could be the gasket and some minor knock could have popped it. I'm sure suprdave can tune really well but I am just curious.</TD></TR></TABLE>

111 octane tracktek leaded fuel

let me see if i can get them.

 

I don't want to say your tune isn't good, but I would definitely pull more timing.

I have A LOT (years, 15-20 motors, 30+HG changes) of experience w/boosted D's and HG problems (no, not all mine). Gone through all the resurfacing/sealers/more tq. on the headstuds/etc. None of those routes ever fixed anything. It is ALWAYS a timing issue assuming the surfaces are flat.

For example, the Y8 that is currently in my car has had 6 HG changes in the past due to pushing coolant when it was stock, before the P2P timing maps were finally figured out. It never detonated, but the problem kept occuring. All the "fixes" above were tried to no avail. But once the timing was finally brought down to where it should be, it was fine (200-250whp).

Now, with the new setup (417whp, 28+psi) it has had ZERO HG PROBLEMS.

Stock block(no sleeves)/head has never been resurfaced as it was flat every time it was checked.
ARP headstuds torqued to ~65ft-lbs w/moly lube.
Stock Honda Y8 HG.
It only runs 3-4* of timing at peak VE on 28+psi and 101 octane unleaded, and has been subjected to numerous pulls up to 140+mph w/no probs.


Continuous HG probs have caused a lot of people to give up on boosting D's.
Pull some timing, and be happier in the long run, even if it costs you a little power.

 

Modified by mike93eh2 at 5:32 PM 11/7/2006

 

yea right now i dont care about power and just need this issue fixed. check out the new maps. suprdave doesnt think its the timing.

 

If its not the timing then he should be willing to put his word on the fact that if you remove ignition timing the problem won't go away. You have S300. Remove some timing.

PS: You should list your basic setup.

 

I've never used that fuel but that low map doesn't look too agressive, I assume the high is not that different. Throw the high up too since thats the important one.

I do agree with the JFK78 as far as keeping these single cams together. low low peak cyl pressures seem to prevent the HG problems.

 

i'd pull some timing and see if the problem persists. Its been proven they can make more power than that without issues. If it still happens then you got problems elsewhere, but in my experience its almost always been the timing.

 

expletive sorry fixed the pics, both low and high maps now..