good motor for a 02 civic?
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Jametown, Ohio, USA
good motor for a 02 civic?
Right now I have the stock d17 with a turbo and some other mods. but I'm just not feelin the d-series motor and would rather have a duel overhead cam b16 ok maybe a k20. I think I'm leaning more towards the b-series just cuz I think it would be easier/cheaper to work on.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,825
Likes: 2
From: Clarksville, TN
Re: good motor for a 02 civic? (YeahIknow)
B series? Easy? HA!
But seriously, it has only been done once (recorded, to my knowledge) and that wasn't even street legal. B series are on the way out. K series is where it's at right now. The K is the B of the "olden" days.
Just save us all a headache and ask why we think. and you should think. that you should put a K series in.
Sorry if I come across as a ********, I am a little wired right now.
And by the way, use this thread to your advantage, there is a TON of information... and more than likely, your questions have been awnsered before right here: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1759217
But seriously, it has only been done once (recorded, to my knowledge) and that wasn't even street legal. B series are on the way out. K series is where it's at right now. The K is the B of the "olden" days.
Just save us all a headache and ask why we think. and you should think. that you should put a K series in.
Sorry if I come across as a ********, I am a little wired right now.
And by the way, use this thread to your advantage, there is a TON of information... and more than likely, your questions have been awnsered before right here: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1759217
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Jametown, Ohio, USA
Re: good motor for a 02 civic? (.Red.EM2)
Yeah i see alot of peolpe going for the k-series motors over any other but I'm not much of follower. Plus i want to just bolt my turbo on to the new motor and not have to worry about new piping and what not...or could i have the exhaust of the k20 to the front of the car and not the back...I need to do more homework on the k-series. i know more about the h,f,b, and d-series but i guess thats beginning to be old school now.
Re: good motor for a 02 civic? (YeahIknow)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YeahIknow »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah i see alot of peolpe going for the k-series motors over any other but I'm not much of follower. Plus i want to just bolt my turbo on to the new motor and not have to worry about new piping and what not...or could i have the exhaust of the k20 to the front of the car and not the back...I need to do more homework on the k-series. i know more about the h,f,b, and d-series but i guess thats beginning to be old school now.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Search, please.
This has been covered countless times, and it even made it into the FAQ.
It's not that the H, F, B, and D-series engines are old school, it's that they'd be extremely difficult to put into the 7th gen. chassis. Not to mention that, with the exception of the 2001 Integra, NONE of them are legal to swap into a newer chassis.
There's only 2 documented B-series transplants, in the world, and they're either a dedicated Show Car only, or a Salt Flats top speed racer. Other than those two, there's no documented transplants of anything other than K-series engines. Don't try and be an original on this one, you'll end up draining whatever bank account you have, in the process.
Search, please.
This has been covered countless times, and it even made it into the FAQ.
It's not that the H, F, B, and D-series engines are old school, it's that they'd be extremely difficult to put into the 7th gen. chassis. Not to mention that, with the exception of the 2001 Integra, NONE of them are legal to swap into a newer chassis.
There's only 2 documented B-series transplants, in the world, and they're either a dedicated Show Car only, or a Salt Flats top speed racer. Other than those two, there's no documented transplants of anything other than K-series engines. Don't try and be an original on this one, you'll end up draining whatever bank account you have, in the process.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,276
Likes: 1
From: Abbotsford, B.C., Canada
if u think ur just as good as AEM's Engineer's for their time attack Em2 with b16 ( destroked to 1.5L) then please, show the world what you got.
If u arent a Guru of Wiring, please sit down, stop arguing and use search.
If u arent a Guru of Wiring, please sit down, stop arguing and use search.
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Jametown, Ohio, USA
Re: good motor for a 02 civic? (toyomatt84)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by toyomatt84 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Search, please.
This has been covered countless times, and it even made it into the FAQ.
It's not that the H, F, B, and D-series engines are old school, it's that they'd be extremely difficult to put into the 7th gen. chassis. Not to mention that, with the exception of the 2001 Integra, NONE of them are legal to swap into a newer chassis.
There's only 2 documented B-series transplants, in the world, and they're either a dedicated Show Car only, or a Salt Flats top speed racer. Other than those two, there's no documented transplants of anything other than K-series engines. Don't try and be an original on this one, you'll end up draining whatever bank account you have, in the process.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I checked out your FAQ and only saw a post about k-series swaps. So I checked out some other forums such as hondaswap.com and found that you are right about the engine being illegal for 02+ cars being that they dont make a b-series motor for them...but lets say my civic was a 01 which is still the em2 if I'm not mistaken, I would have the green light and as far as the b-series swap being hard and only like two know people to have done it. I really dont think it was because its a hard swap I just think that most people are are looking for the new big K. But maybe I still dont know what I'm talking about, but thats why were all here to help each other out.
Search, please.
This has been covered countless times, and it even made it into the FAQ.
It's not that the H, F, B, and D-series engines are old school, it's that they'd be extremely difficult to put into the 7th gen. chassis. Not to mention that, with the exception of the 2001 Integra, NONE of them are legal to swap into a newer chassis.
There's only 2 documented B-series transplants, in the world, and they're either a dedicated Show Car only, or a Salt Flats top speed racer. Other than those two, there's no documented transplants of anything other than K-series engines. Don't try and be an original on this one, you'll end up draining whatever bank account you have, in the process.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I checked out your FAQ and only saw a post about k-series swaps. So I checked out some other forums such as hondaswap.com and found that you are right about the engine being illegal for 02+ cars being that they dont make a b-series motor for them...but lets say my civic was a 01 which is still the em2 if I'm not mistaken, I would have the green light and as far as the b-series swap being hard and only like two know people to have done it. I really dont think it was because its a hard swap I just think that most people are are looking for the new big K. But maybe I still dont know what I'm talking about, but thats why were all here to help each other out.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,276
Likes: 1
From: Abbotsford, B.C., Canada
Re: good motor for a 02 civic? (YeahIknow)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YeahIknow »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I really dont think it was because its a hard swap I just think that most people are are looking for the new big K. </TD></TR></TABLE>
It ISSSSS because its that hard, if it was easy, i would WAY rather pay $1500 for a b16a, than 4000 for a k20, regardless of the HP difference.
The b16a requires... Custom Motor Mounts/tranny mounts, Custom axels, ALLL CUSTOM wiring ( A HUGEEEE TASK) Rewire EVERYTHING, speedo, ecu.
IT also might require a custom header/downpipe.
Another huge problem, is because its never been well documented, EVERYTHING you did would be trial and error, and im sure there would be a TON of errors along the way.
I really dont think it was because its a hard swap I just think that most people are are looking for the new big K. </TD></TR></TABLE>
It ISSSSS because its that hard, if it was easy, i would WAY rather pay $1500 for a b16a, than 4000 for a k20, regardless of the HP difference.
The b16a requires... Custom Motor Mounts/tranny mounts, Custom axels, ALLL CUSTOM wiring ( A HUGEEEE TASK) Rewire EVERYTHING, speedo, ecu.
IT also might require a custom header/downpipe.
Another huge problem, is because its never been well documented, EVERYTHING you did would be trial and error, and im sure there would be a TON of errors along the way.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Jametown, Ohio, USA
Re: good motor for a 02 civic? (B18a_CRX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18a_CRX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It ISSSSS because its that hard, if it was easy, i would WAY rather pay $1500 for a b16a, than 4000 for a k20, regardless of the HP difference.
The b16a requires... Custom Motor Mounts/tranny mounts, Custom axels, ALLL CUSTOM wiring ( A HUGEEEE TASK) Rewire EVERYTHING, speedo, ecu.
IT also might require a custom header/downpipe.
Another huge problem, is because its never been well documented, EVERYTHING you did would be trial and error, and im sure there would be a TON of errors along the way.</TD></TR></TABLE>
But if I'm not mistake the stock d17 block is the same as the old d-series blocks and I've done a d15 to a b16 in a eg civic...yes i know its not a em2 but I'm just trying to show the ralationship. So for my problem is the car not being legal >.<
It ISSSSS because its that hard, if it was easy, i would WAY rather pay $1500 for a b16a, than 4000 for a k20, regardless of the HP difference.
The b16a requires... Custom Motor Mounts/tranny mounts, Custom axels, ALLL CUSTOM wiring ( A HUGEEEE TASK) Rewire EVERYTHING, speedo, ecu.
IT also might require a custom header/downpipe.
Another huge problem, is because its never been well documented, EVERYTHING you did would be trial and error, and im sure there would be a TON of errors along the way.</TD></TR></TABLE>
But if I'm not mistake the stock d17 block is the same as the old d-series blocks and I've done a d15 to a b16 in a eg civic...yes i know its not a em2 but I'm just trying to show the ralationship. So for my problem is the car not being legal >.<
Re: good motor for a 02 civic? (YeahIknow)
The D17 is nothing like it's predecessors, the D16 and D15. Also, the wiring schematics for the B-series engines are completely different than that of an EM2, so that would require a completely fabricated wiring harness to match the electronics inside the cabin, with that of the engine. Then, there's not to even mention the transmission differences and the fact that you'd need custom axles, engine mounts, and subframe to get the engine sit properly in the bay.
Now, you think the swap isn't popular because of it's legality? That'd be incorrect. It's uncommon, because it's EXTREMELY difficult to do. It'd take months to get the car to run properly, without serious custom fabrication. You don't seem to comprehend how much work would be involved in just custom fabrication, to get the engine to sit in the bay, let alone function.
Now, you think the swap isn't popular because of it's legality? That'd be incorrect. It's uncommon, because it's EXTREMELY difficult to do. It'd take months to get the car to run properly, without serious custom fabrication. You don't seem to comprehend how much work would be involved in just custom fabrication, to get the engine to sit in the bay, let alone function.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 551
Likes: 0
From: Maumee, OH, US
Re: good motor for a 02 civic? (toyomatt84)
I really don't think that it would be horribally hard. You would need custom mounts, shift cables, axles, and exhaust. Most of it could be modded from a 6thgen Si. As most said the hardest part would be the wiring harness. If you got an ECU to match the engine (this is what you would want to do) there would be alot of rewiring inside of the car and some on the engine side. The wiring is not horribally difficult if you have both harnesses (one from the engine you bought and the one from the D17) and two helms wire diagram manuals one for each car. What you would wat to do is pull both harnesses completely and sit inside working away making your own harness. I have helped do this with an 04 STI into a 96 legacy swap and the wiring alone took us a couple of months.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Jametown, Ohio, USA
Re: good motor for a 02 civic? (bgoetz)
Damn I think I want to try this B16 swap but I'm just not finding any real solid information about block specs, mounting specs, or wiring specs. I'm realy not to worries about the wiring. its the mounting specs....hmm I think im a call the dealership and have then send me the the whole layout of a 2000 civic si and the whole layout of the 02 civic ex. I think that would be my best bet. Heck, I've worked at a body shop I know how to fab some stuff up.
Have you ever done an engine swap where you're changing the series of OBD wiring, the fuel system, and the way in which the transmission transfers power to the wheels? If so, then you might have a slim chance of getting the swap to work. But, even if you do, you're swapping for a lower displacement engine.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,276
Likes: 1
From: Abbotsford, B.C., Canada
Dude, dont be a MORON.
We all tried to be nice to you, now its time to be a little mean, as i dont want to see any1 RUIN an em2 because they think WAY to highly of their abilities.
A K20a2 in an EF chassis is easier than this swap. I Dont care if ur a certified electrition, this swap is NOT EASY TO WIRE. Do u even know how to "fab" up custom mounts? Solid mounts = Kinda hard, but if u want to have inserts so your engine doesnt shake ur car INSANELY HARD, then GOOOD LUCK. I have a friend that did it, took him about 5 trys to get it to work, not to mention he had a welders certificate and WORKED in a Semi-Truck Fab shop
You may have done a d16-b16 swap in the past, hell ive done a d16-b18 swap. THEY ARE SIMPLE!!!! EVERYTHING IS MADE TO FIT! This is totally different, you dont even know how the tranny will line up with the axels, you have NO templates to look up, Stop being stingy and realise that a TEAM of ULTRA SMART AEM ENGINEERS HAVE MADE THE ONLY b16 POWERED Em2 IN THE WORLD! 1 guy that thinks hes smart doesnt stand a chance.
We all tried to be nice to you, now its time to be a little mean, as i dont want to see any1 RUIN an em2 because they think WAY to highly of their abilities.
A K20a2 in an EF chassis is easier than this swap. I Dont care if ur a certified electrition, this swap is NOT EASY TO WIRE. Do u even know how to "fab" up custom mounts? Solid mounts = Kinda hard, but if u want to have inserts so your engine doesnt shake ur car INSANELY HARD, then GOOOD LUCK. I have a friend that did it, took him about 5 trys to get it to work, not to mention he had a welders certificate and WORKED in a Semi-Truck Fab shop
You may have done a d16-b16 swap in the past, hell ive done a d16-b18 swap. THEY ARE SIMPLE!!!! EVERYTHING IS MADE TO FIT! This is totally different, you dont even know how the tranny will line up with the axels, you have NO templates to look up, Stop being stingy and realise that a TEAM of ULTRA SMART AEM ENGINEERS HAVE MADE THE ONLY b16 POWERED Em2 IN THE WORLD! 1 guy that thinks hes smart doesnt stand a chance.
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
From: Warren, Michigan, USA
Here is a quote from the guy with the aem destroked b16 in a thread where the same question was asked.
"I have an 01 LX coupe with a B series swap. There is no way a shop would agree to do it unless they have no idea what they are talking about.
The shifters are completely different, there are no mounts available, the electronics are totally incompatible, the subframe blocks the headers so you will need to get a custom header made, you will need custom axles, plus lots, lots more. Just swap in a K, it's cheaper and in the end, it will be a faster car. Also, it just might be smog legal (not that I give a damn)."
"I have an 01 LX coupe with a B series swap. There is no way a shop would agree to do it unless they have no idea what they are talking about.
The shifters are completely different, there are no mounts available, the electronics are totally incompatible, the subframe blocks the headers so you will need to get a custom header made, you will need custom axles, plus lots, lots more. Just swap in a K, it's cheaper and in the end, it will be a faster car. Also, it just might be smog legal (not that I give a damn)."
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
From: Manassas, VA, Usa
Re: good motor for a 02 civic? (YeahIknow)
dude ... your best option is a k-swap. When the most knowledgeable are telling you so ... than listen and save yourself the agravation.
p.s. k newer... parts easier to get ... do the math///
p.s. k newer... parts easier to get ... do the math///
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 0
From: Poughkeepsie, NY, Dutchess
Re: good motor for a 02 civic? (YeahIknow)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YeahIknow »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Damn I think I want to try this B16 swap but I'm just not finding any real solid information about block specs, mounting specs, or wiring specs. I'm realy not to worries about the wiring. its the mounting specs....hmm I think im a call the dealership and have then send me the the whole layout of a 2000 civic si and the whole layout of the 02 civic ex. I think that would be my best bet. Heck, I've worked at a body shop I know how to fab some stuff up.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Find an EM2 wreck and get the front subframe and wire harness. Then you can get a B motor (B20/18 head) and play with mounts ans wires without messing your ride!
Find an EM2 wreck and get the front subframe and wire harness. Then you can get a B motor (B20/18 head) and play with mounts ans wires without messing your ride!
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Jametown, Ohio, USA
Re: (B18a_CRX)
Ok guys I appreciate all your input. I did a bunch of searching and I put 2 cars up side by side and compared the mounts, the shifters, and axles. I also looked at the wiring but I know the wiring has to be totally done. As far as the mounting of the motors, it’s missing a whole mount but besides that mounting position is pretty much the same. I think I would have some trouble with the shifter cuz they are totally different.
Now for the k-series I haven’t really looked into it but I know this thing isn’t just going to bolt up unless I’ve got a 01-05 civic si. I found a jdm base k20 for like I think $1800 but all the other motors I found were like 5k. Plus I’m probably going to need some parts.
I mean it looks like I’m going to need to pull some money out of my butt for either of these swaps I guess if I’m going to spend the money and time I should try and go with the k24. I don’t know I’ll have to way out the costs and time. I want to do the b-series but it looks like its going to be like putting a k-series into an eg. It can be done its just a lot of money and time wasted.
Now for the k-series I haven’t really looked into it but I know this thing isn’t just going to bolt up unless I’ve got a 01-05 civic si. I found a jdm base k20 for like I think $1800 but all the other motors I found were like 5k. Plus I’m probably going to need some parts.
I mean it looks like I’m going to need to pull some money out of my butt for either of these swaps I guess if I’m going to spend the money and time I should try and go with the k24. I don’t know I’ll have to way out the costs and time. I want to do the b-series but it looks like its going to be like putting a k-series into an eg. It can be done its just a lot of money and time wasted.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,276
Likes: 1
From: Abbotsford, B.C., Canada
Re: (YeahIknow)
You have a civic SI? ??? ??? they have a k20a3 stock!Then u dont need to swap it out... Which confuses me...
1) If u do have a 2002-2005 Civic Si, then ur engine is FINE, just boost it, or swap it out for k20a2/k24a2/k20a
2) If u imported a Canadian Si to Ohio ( canadian Si = USA EX) then yes, u have a d17a2, and a kswap is a great choice.
But before we go any further, we need to know what car u have.
If u end up having the 2002-2005 Civic Si Hatchback, ur in the wrong forum. Check the EP3/DC5 forum.
Lastly, if u do have the Civic Si/Ep3, you already have the same engine as the JDM engine for sale from Nakayami motors for $1800, this engine is listed as a k20a but its NOT its a k20a3, a k20a is from a DC5 and is the best OEM build K made, its the Type R engine.
Uve contridicted urself a few times already, saying u have a d17 in a Civic Si.... Since this is only possible in Canada, and ur in the USA, u really need to find out if ur civic is an SI Hatchback ( k20a3) or LX/VP/DX(d17a1) or ex(d17a2) or HX ( i dunno engine code)
1) If u do have a 2002-2005 Civic Si, then ur engine is FINE, just boost it, or swap it out for k20a2/k24a2/k20a
2) If u imported a Canadian Si to Ohio ( canadian Si = USA EX) then yes, u have a d17a2, and a kswap is a great choice.
But before we go any further, we need to know what car u have.
If u end up having the 2002-2005 Civic Si Hatchback, ur in the wrong forum. Check the EP3/DC5 forum.
Lastly, if u do have the Civic Si/Ep3, you already have the same engine as the JDM engine for sale from Nakayami motors for $1800, this engine is listed as a k20a but its NOT its a k20a3, a k20a is from a DC5 and is the best OEM build K made, its the Type R engine.
Uve contridicted urself a few times already, saying u have a d17 in a Civic Si.... Since this is only possible in Canada, and ur in the USA, u really need to find out if ur civic is an SI Hatchback ( k20a3) or LX/VP/DX(d17a1) or ex(d17a2) or HX ( i dunno engine code)
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Jametown, Ohio, USA
Re: (B18a_CRX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18a_CRX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You have a civic SI? ??? ??? they have a k20a3 stock!Then u dont need to swap it out... Which confuses me...
1) If u do have a 2002-2005 Civic Si, then ur engine is FINE, just boost it, or swap it out for k20a2/k24a2/k20a
2) If u imported a Canadian Si to Ohio ( canadian Si = USA EX) then yes, u have a d17a2, and a kswap is a great choice.
But before we go any further, we need to know what car u have.
If u end up having the 2002-2005 Civic Si Hatchback, ur in the wrong forum. Check the EP3/DC5 forum.
Lastly, if u do have the Civic Si/Ep3, you already have the same engine as the JDM engine for sale from Nakayami motors for $1800, this engine is listed as a k20a but its NOT its a k20a3, a k20a is from a DC5 and is the best OEM build K made, its the Type R engine.
Uve contridicted urself a few times already, saying u have a d17 in a Civic Si.... Since this is only possible in Canada, and ur in the USA, u really need to find out if ur civic is an SI Hatchback ( k20a3) or LX/VP/DX(d17a1) or ex(d17a2) or HX ( i dunno engine code)
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I said unless i have a civic si...read carefully
1) If u do have a 2002-2005 Civic Si, then ur engine is FINE, just boost it, or swap it out for k20a2/k24a2/k20a
2) If u imported a Canadian Si to Ohio ( canadian Si = USA EX) then yes, u have a d17a2, and a kswap is a great choice.
But before we go any further, we need to know what car u have.
If u end up having the 2002-2005 Civic Si Hatchback, ur in the wrong forum. Check the EP3/DC5 forum.
Lastly, if u do have the Civic Si/Ep3, you already have the same engine as the JDM engine for sale from Nakayami motors for $1800, this engine is listed as a k20a but its NOT its a k20a3, a k20a is from a DC5 and is the best OEM build K made, its the Type R engine.
Uve contridicted urself a few times already, saying u have a d17 in a Civic Si.... Since this is only possible in Canada, and ur in the USA, u really need to find out if ur civic is an SI Hatchback ( k20a3) or LX/VP/DX(d17a1) or ex(d17a2) or HX ( i dunno engine code)
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I said unless i have a civic si...read carefully
