So, do you think EVO magazine got it right with their verdict of the DC2 Integra Type-R being not only the greatest FWD car of all time, but also one of the best handling cars, period? Want to validate EVO's findings and your fondness of the car, and vote the ITR as one of the Top 10 Supercars for their 100th issue?

Here's your chance!

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evon....html


The niggling thing is you'll have to register (free) to enter. lol.. take note when you enter your birthdate that those wacky Brits use DD/MM/YYYY..

Not that I feel obliged to tell anyone how to vote but the NSX-R is on the list, too. I found out about this poll from NSX Prime.


#0330 says she's just happy to be nominated.

 

Porsche 911 GT3, Maserati Quattroporte, ITR, old M5, Lotus Elise, Jaguar XKR, Ford Escort Cosworth, Audi RS4, Ferrari F40, Lamborghini Muira

 

ITR is a great, great car but lets not get too carried away! ANY supercar would destroy one, road or track.

 

There are different categories.

Lets not get carried away before we read it

 

The ITR makes it to these lists because of it's purity and visceral driving experience in a package with econocar Civic roots. Add Honda reliability, and, mechanical simplicity and you've got a winner folks. It's not about brute power.

As a side note, I'd like to add that Mazdaspeed's new 3, seems to have the makings of a cult pocket rocket. Let's wait and see.

The previous gen mazdaspeed had a brilliant chassis, with ITR-like or better reflexes in stock form. It's a achille's heels were, a weak braking system that faded way too early, and, a quirky, inefficient engine management system.

This time around. I think Tod Kaneco and company have got a winner on their hands. Anyone who doesn't at the very least recognize this, may be blindsided by it in the end.

 

[QUOTE=H-PIMP]The ITR makes it to these lists because of it's purity and visceral driving experience in a package with econocar Civic roots. Add Honda reliability, and, mechanical simplicity and you've got a winner folks. It's not about brute power.QUOTE]

I owned one for 6 years, I think I understand

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H-PIMP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The previous gen mazdaspeed had a brilliant chassis, with ITR-like or better reflexes in stock form. It's a achille's heels were, a weak braking system that faded way too early, and, a quirky, inefficient engine management system.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I wouldn't say that the older Mazdaspeed was even close to ITR like in stock form. It was a good car, but aside from all the magazine and internet hype, it didn't really come close to the ITR in terms of handling.

And the motor heat-soaked so bad it wasn't funny.

It was a great car for those who wanted a slightly tamer ITR and 4-doors. I am glad to see Mazda is trying it again, in one form or another.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ed 341 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Porsche 911 GT3, Maserati Quattroporte, ITR, old M5, Lotus Elise, Jaguar XKR, Ford Escort Cosworth, Audi RS4, Ferrari F40, Lamborghini Muira</TD></TR></TABLE>

I forgot my selections exactly, and in what order.

I had the ITR, Ferrari F40, McLaren F1, Koenigsegg, Honda NSX-R, Porsche 911 GT3, Pagani Zonda, Ford Escort Cosworth , ehh I go blank.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ITR is a great, great car but lets not get too carried away! ANY supercar would destroy one, road or track.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Certainly the ITR would never fit my definition of a supercar. I was surprised to see EVO list it as a selection. I figure, hell, if they think it belongs there, maybe some other people do, too. There are some other "pedestrian" cars to choose from, too.

 

Good choices

You need more saloons though..did you read the directions?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ed 341 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good choices

You need more saloons though..did you read the directions? </TD></TR></TABLE>

oh noooooo! What was it - 2 am when I made this thread? Reading, bah!

Fortunately, thanks to your pointing it out, I learned we can vote more than once.

ITR, NSX/R, F40, Koenigsegg, 360 CS, SL55 AMG, Skyline R32-34, Evo IX FQ 360, Escort Cossie, RS4.

Dang, no room for the 959, Miura, 911 GT3, Veyron, or Fiat Multipla


Modified by 330R at 1:58 PM 10/9/2006

 

We had a lot of the same choices. Some like the SL55 and Evo IX FQ 360 I thought were just part of an evolutionary process which will be replaced with something faster, better, etc. I tried to pick ones that were the best examples of what they were at the time (ITR, M5, Muira and F40) It was hard to do for all of them though..

Still interested in what others would pick from this list too.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I wouldn't say that the older Mazdaspeed was even close to ITR like in stock form. It was a good car, but aside from all the magazine and internet hype, it didn't really come close to the ITR in terms of handling.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can't be serious, when you say it wasn't even close. The mazdaspeed protege's 69 mph slalom in bone stock form is far from hype.

Your speculation is one thing, my 19 months of ownership and 36K miles behind the wheel of a Mazdaspeed Protege reveal a totally different outlook on the subject. And owning an ITR at the same time gave me plenty of time to play with both cars back to back.

The ITR had better brakes, and, a better drivetrain hands down. But there's no way stock for stock an ITR had greater high speed stability, or higher handling limits than the msp. Not to mention the fact that the msp's steering is hardwired to the drivers brain.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

And the motor heat-soaked so bad it wasn't funny.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

You really can't hold that against the car. The Callaway Turbo system in the MSP was an afterthought, not an engineering marvel.

Free mods and some aftermarket support made the car ten times more enjoyable. For just under $600 I chopped .7 off my quarter mile time, improved my fuel economy, and, reduced heatsoak. (2.5 catted d/p, ES motor mount inserts, hardpipes, dealer TSB reflash*)

The factory downpipe bottleneck'd to 1.9 inches between 2 huge, super-restrictive cats. Replacing it with a mandrel bent 2.5 inch downpipe with 1 high flow cat, along with the hardpipes raised the cars heatsoak threshold considerably for most hard driving conditions. (auto-X, drag)

But for track driving a $900 FMIC completely eliminates heatsoak and increases hp.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It was a great car for those who wanted a slightly tamer ITR and 4-doors. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It was a great car period.

Unfortunately, it was snubbed by many enthusiasts for no apparent reason.

 

H-pimp, now you're going into the realm of modifications. We're talking bone stock vs. bone stock, which is how the editors review them.

Point is, the MSP did have a heat soak problem that a lot of folks really didn't like. After the first few laps on a roadcourse the car was down 25 hp or so.

As for handling, I thought it was almost ITR level, but not quite as nimble. I'm not saying it wasn't a good car, but I don't think it is on the same level as the ITR. They are in the same SoloII stock class, yet the ITR is unchallenged by the MSP.

As long as you could stand a little louder ride, the ITR had the MSP covered in pretty much every category. The MSP would make a better family and commuter car while maintaining 90% of the ITR fun-factor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">H-pimp, now you're going into the realm of modifications. We're talking bone stock vs. bone stock, which is how the editors review them.

Point is, the MSP did have a heat soak problem that a lot of folks really didn't like. After the first few laps on a roadcourse the car was down 25 hp or so.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed, but free mods and five hundred bucks go along way in an MSP.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

As for handling, I thought it was almost ITR level, but not quite as nimble.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

The ITR's shorter wheelbase and slightly stiffer structure will have that effect.

The flip side to that coin was the MSP's high speed stability was a bit better than a stock ITR's due to the longer wheelbase.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm not saying it wasn't a good car, but I don't think it is on the same level as the ITR. They are in the same SoloII stock class, yet the ITR is unchallenged by the MSP.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I blame that more on the MSP's powertrain than the cars honest chassis.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
As long as you could stand a little louder ride, the ITR had the MSP covered in pretty much every category. The MSP would make a better family and commuter car while maintaining 90% of the ITR fun-factor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

True, but you have to keep in mind the new-car price points. I got my MSP for $17.8K OTD after year-end rebates and dealer discount. In sept 2003, you simply couldn't buy more performance anywhere for that kind of money.

And since I do have a family and daily driving an R in my area is out of the question due to theft reasons. The MSP was a logical choice for me.