It's finally finished. I used the ITR collector but only the body of the collector and then welded a new tapered section to it and then one of my 2-1/2" flanges used for a donut joint. The ITR collector provides the best ground clearance for a 4-1 of all the collectors. However, if this header tests well and you guys are interested in it I would look at spreading the tubes a little further apart so some more ground clearance is gained. Either way a new custom collector would be needed, there's just way too much work to get the ITR collector to work plus it limits how far the tubes can be spaced apart.


Here's a comparison between the stock, DC and my header.



The unfortunate cross member. If the tubes were spread further apart going into the collector I think less of the cross member would have to be cut out, or maybe a new cross member could be built. I welded (2) 3/4" square tubes inside the member before skinning it with some 16g steel.



Header installed with NO cross member



Header and cross member



Hopefully I'll be able to post the dyno tonight.

 

very impressive piece of work - wish I'd had one of those beauties when I still had my 'lude...

Paul

 

holy cow! so thats what you were up to while maming that poor itr header! GENIUS!

 

So what's it feel like? Can you feel a big difference?

 

lets see those dyno sheets

 

it is possible to fit 4-1 headers into the car without cutting the subframe. have you seen the kamikazie 4-1 headers? the primaries don't cross over one another... each one goes straight down under the car.

edit: not that its a better design.


[Modified by JDM LUDE, 9:10 PM 4/16/2002]

 

the kamikazee is 4-1...but its 4-1 that merges right away...so only one pipe goes down...which is really not a great design for all motor applications

 

is it just the picture angle, or does it bottle kneck a bit where the 02 sensor is?

 

maybe its the hotshot header - either way, I've seen a 4-1 header that doesn't collect until the 02 sensor

 

Wow that's one smooooth collector.

 

nice work... looks like you've been working hard. Me want dyno. dyno, Dyno, DYNO!!! please

 

I don't know what HotShot carries, but I haven't seen a true 4-1 which extends to the collector. Kamakazi has short primaries that drop into a fat B pipe. Good for FI, but not ideal for N/A applications.

GIMME THE DYNO #'s!!!

 

yeah jdmlude is right i have the hotshot header and it does merge at the o2 sensor i'll try to get some pics of it,but the smsp header looks good,you guys had to make the header for the h22 right after i had bought the hotshot one

 

I define a bottle neck as an abrupt reduction in diameter which causes turbulence and has a negative effect on power. A tapered section is much different. The ITR collector has an OK taper to it considering it is a mass produced collector that is stamped from 2 sheets of metal. This collector



Actually has an inner tube atthe outlet of the collector which forms a chamber between the outer (65mm OD) tube. I cut this section out to weld on a new transition piece for the collector outlet and use a new flange since the JDM flange has a large diameter and would hange below the primary tubes.

 

what is corey doing for cat and exhaust as of now?

 

would it be easier to have to tubes cross under the car? or not even cross at all? If I am looking at it right, the firing order would still make sense....


[Modified by JDM LUDE, 4:38 AM 4/17/2002]

 

No cat, this is a track only car. I used 2-1/2" stainless steel tubing into a 18" Magnaflow resonator with a turn down and it wasn't too bad, but I didn't hear it at the dyno

JDM Lude, with the size tubing I'm using I don't think I have the room to make that work. Guys please remember this is the first header I've built for the H22 and changes will be made as well as trying a 4-2-1 design, but it took me 3-4 iterations of just the tubing layout/configuration to get the ITR header to the point it is today.

 

ok i need some explanations here..

why do you have to cross the pipings like that?
couldn't they just go down straight and cross under the engine..

would it be a good idea to have the collector taper from a longer distance..
let's say6-8" before ...and slowly going into the collector ??

are all your pipings the exact same distance from top to collector?


hey .. I WANNA SEE DYNOS
eheh

one thing..will you use ITR collectors for all your manifolds?
or u will get anotehr collector?

 

now that i think about it, it would probably cause some serious clearance problems.

 

why do you have to cross the pipings like that?
couldn't they just go down straight and cross under the engine..

If the tubes were to cross under the engine then the 2 tubes which were crossing would need to be on the same plane and 1 tube diameter higher/lower than the other 2 tubes.

would it be a good idea to have the collector taper from a longer distance..
let's say6-8" before ...and slowly going into the collector ??

I'll have to measure the length of what was used from the ITR collector but I'd estimate it to be about 6" prior to my transition piece. Larger volume collectors tend to help the mid range.


are all your pipings the exact same distance from top to collector?

I don't have my as built drawings with me right now so I'll have to get you that dimension tomorrow, I'll actually give you the difference in lengths for all the tubes based on one tube as a reference. Different companies have different definitions of equal length tubes. Some are happy to be within 2-3 inches and others are fine with it "looking" like they are all equal. Some difference in length can also help to broaden the torque curve. The bottom line is when building a header for a stock chasis you have many design constraints and one has to work within those to come up with the best design. Is it the very best design for a header? No, we'd have to turn the engine 180 degrees, come off the head at a specific angle (most likely not perpendicular), cut holes in the fire wall and make only very slight bends so all the tubes stay as straight as possible.

hey .. I WANNA SEE DYNOS <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0">
eheh

Me too

one thing..will you use ITR collectors for all your manifolds?
or u will get anotehr collector?

No, if I end up building 4-1s I will most likely be building long cones and then form them around the staggered tubes.

[Modified by SMSP, 9:40 PM 4/16/2002]


Modified by SMSP at 11:09 AM 8/3/2003

 

nice stuff..

i am now working on a desing of a downpipe to after cat ..will be going prototyping pretty soon ( 1 month maybe ) then it'll be dyno time

what do you think of the top portion of the stock header ?


what i meant by a longer collector wasn't a bigger volume one..
i only ment that you could try an design it so that it it like twice as long as the itr one..but keeps the total volume going down linearly up to the end piping size

the point would be to accelerate the gas movement without turbulences ..

i'll do a 3d model right now and show you wnat i meant ...
gimme 20mins

brb
3dtime

 

^^ I wanna see the 3d model... but I really should get some sleep. Oh the choices one has to make.

 

what do you think of the top portion of the stock header ?

I don't like it, the primaries are only about 1-1/2" and the ports in the manifold are smaller then the ports in the head.

what i meant by a longer collector wasn't a bigger volume one..
i only ment that you could try an design it so that it it like twice as long as the itr one..but keeps the total volume going down linearly up to the end piping size

Well, without getting into specifics your volume will most likely increase if you double the length even with a tubular collector. All the true merge collectors form a very nice shape on the inner tubing. For a 4-1 collector it comes to a point, now if you stagger the tubes as in this header and try to build a merge collector you will actually get a tongue and not a point. A perfect example of this is the DC JDM 4-1 header for the ITR. Now granted, that is a better set up then just cutting the tubes to length and sliding a formed collector over the tubes but we're in the early prototype stages here and you don't do all these things for the first go around. Because you'll never know how they effected the performance of the header on an individual basis. Someone would have to be God to come up with the best performing header on the first shot, but God probably doesn't care about the dyno numbers so we're on our own with this one.


i'll do a 3d model right now and show you wnat i meant ...
gimme 20mins

SMSP - Who wishes AutoCad did better 3D modeling



[Modified by SMSP, 10:04 PM 4/16/2002]

 

i konw it's not much but neway..u'll see what i mean better
( animation requires DIVX 4 or + )


http://www.orijin.ca/special/header4_1.avi


to acutally do what i meant i would need more modelling time..
for the colector .. but neway

the point was that if you can make a collector that takes the 4 times 1.75" and lineairly taper that into 2.5" or 2.375" as u wish

that would make a lot less turbulence and could give a definit boost ..
though i know that it is rather hard to make such a piece

i'll give it a thought and let u konw if i find something that would work good for the 4-1 collector ..maybe u could take a look and see if you could use it

 

one thing..
this is a prototype right ?

wich material will you be using for the final product ?
and what was used in this one ??