would it be necessary to clay a motor at with +1.1compression pistons in a b20? I know its wise to do it but the motor is in the car and its back breaking...i just want to know everyones opinion.

But if I do, how do you "swap" the rockers to have Vtec engaged all the time when im claying it? I went on C-speedracing but got confused on one of the steps...TIA

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Supah_Eg6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how do you "swap" the rockers to have Vtec engaged all the time when im claying it? I went on C-speedracing but got confused on one of the steps...TIA</TD></TR></TABLE>

you need to swap the pins in the rockers.

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1616749

 

Dont swap the pin to lock vtec. Take the small pin in the end rocker out and put a bb in the hole in the rocker, then put the small pin back in, the bb will hold the small pin out into the middle pin and push the middle pin into the other end rocker with the spring plunger. This way instead of only locking 1 valve into vtec it lock both on that side..This is a good way to do it when checking valve to valve and also the way you need to do it if your degreeing cams with Mike belben's cam degree kit.
Insted of using clay which can get stuck onto the valve seat if your not careful. Pick up one of Mike Belbens cam degree kits. Take 1 set of vsprings off 1 intake and 1 ex valve, reinstall the retainer with just a small light tension spring that will allow you to push down the valve with your fingers easily. Now lock vtec as i described earlier and install the 3 dial indicator fixture from the belben kit. Rotate the motor to the point where the valves are closest to the piston. Set the dial indicator to 0. Now just push down on the valve that you are checking with your finger until the valve stops and hit the piston. now look at the indicator and see how many thousandths it went down before you hit. thats your piston to valve clearance. Now documet that # and start mmoving your cam gears around to different setting do the test all over.. You will then know what your clearance is at all cam point adjustments..
The reson this way is better in my eyes is because you never have to remove the head and take stuff apart to get the clay out and stuff. You can assemble it 1 time, do the checks and run it..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dan Ruddock &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1616749</TD></TR></TABLE> I still haven't gotten to this yet, but I plan to.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tbone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The reson this way is better in my eyes is because you never have to remove the head and take stuff apart to get the clay out and stuff. You can assemble it 1 time, do the checks and run it..</TD></TR></TABLE> ding ding ding ding we have a winner. it is a pain in the *** to keep removing the head, even when it's out of the car. and working with clay sucks. give me a couple weeks and I'll get in touch with Mr. Ruddock who can hopefully walk me through rigging up the air stopper. i'd like to make a how-to post on this topic.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tbone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dont swap the pin to lock vtec. Take the small pin in the end rocker out and put a bb in the hole in the rocker, then put the small pin back in, the bb will hold the small pin out into the middle pin and push the middle pin into the other end rocker with the spring plunger. This way instead of only locking 1 valve into vtec it lock both on that side..This is a good way to do it when checking valve to valve and also the way you need to do it if your degreeing cams with Mike belben's cam degree kit. </TD></TR></TABLE>

you learn something new everyday!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ( o )( o ) &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> give me a couple weeks and I'll get in touch with Mr. Ruddock who can hopefully walk me through rigging up the air stopper. i'd like to make a how-to post on this topic. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Only problem with using air to lock vtec is that you need an air compressor the size of a car to keep enough air volume to keep them locked for anything longer then 40 seconds.. My crafstman cant do it..lool

 

****. what are the specs on your craftsman air compressor? i have a CH which is 30 gal/5hp i think.

edit one thing i wasn't clear on in the Helms instructions - do you drain the oil before hooking up the air compressor? or leave the oil in?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tbone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Only problem with using air to lock vtec is that you need an air compressor the size of a car to keep enough air volume to keep them locked for anything longer then 40 seconds.. My crafstman cant do it..lool</TD></TR></TABLE>

I found a way around that. If you turn the cam back to where the valves are open the valve springs hold the pins in place and you can remove the air without losing vtec. Dan

 

i need to check my valve to valve clearance what is the best way. I dont have a borescope or access to one.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tbone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Take the small pin in the end rocker out and put a bb in the hole in the rocker, </TD></TR></TABLE>

What is a BB&gt;? can i just put anything in there to push the pins out to lock them?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tbone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also the way you need to do it if your degreeing cams with Mike belben's cam degree kit ... 3 dial indicator fixture from the belben kit. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I tried searching for it but the only that came up was someone named Mike Belben with a master degree in something. What kit is that? And can i just use any dial to measure how far the valves goes down?

Thanks for the great idea Tom, your way saves me the cost for an extra HG!!!!

 

i think he means a BB as in like a BB/pellet gun. and yes, mike_belben_at_yahoo.com is the man who makes the kit.

 

also - which step of the c-speedracing howto confused you? i myself got stuck for a while...i just smoked a bowl and took all that **** apart and finally it all made sense.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ( o )( o ) &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also - which step of the c-speedracing howto confused you? i myself got stuck for a while...i just smoked a bowl and took all that **** apart and finally it all made sense. </TD></TR></TABLE>


Thanks for sharing with us that u are a drug addict

 

you lucky, i just spent $100 on shampoo so i can pass my drug test..LOL

Yea i assumed it was a "BB" just making sure...

and the fact that i don't really have the too much time to disassemble my head, so i figure i ask before i get stuck...im a backyard mechanic, literally, i don't have a garage to to work on my car at. So when the sun comes down, im stuck in the streets in dark.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Supah_Eg6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What is a BB&gt;? can i just put anything in there to push the pins out to lock them?

I tried searching for it but the only that came up was someone named Mike Belben with a master degree in something. What kit is that? And can i just use any dial to measure how far the valves goes down?

Thanks for the great idea Tom, your way saves me the cost for an extra HG!!!! </TD></TR></TABLE>

yep bb , actually its better to use something plastic in case ot goes somwhere accidently and you dont realize it till it clogs something..
And with the Belben kit yes you can use a check spring so you can push down the valve by hand till it hits the piston. (TYPOS HALF ASLEEP<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecmissle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i need to check my valve to valve clearance what is the best way. I dont have a borescope or access to one. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Pull head and wrap old timing belt around the gears and use needle nose vise grips to pull it tight arounbd the 2 gears.. put in those check springs and only do it in 1 cyl
Make sure vtec is locked the way I said to on top

 

Yeah, using a air compressor and air stopper tool has issues. Got me a 5hp craftman air compressor, but still no luck getting it locked.

Best is what Tbone described. I resorted to that way to lock vtec.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Supah_Eg6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I tried searching for it but the only that came up was someone named Mike Belben with a master degree in something.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol.. i cant even make time to finish an associates..

thanks for the love tom, xoxo.. hey when you try air do you put a rubber stopper in that hole near the distributor? i machined a new fitting that plugs a quick disconnect airline right into the front of the head in that 10mm bolt hole. havent tried it yet tho.. since my compressors are huge i dont expect any problems.

about locking with air, if your cams are stupid big like Pro3s or something, slip the timing belt off and put the pistons all at half bore and turn the cams over with a wrench and a timing belt on the camgears as Tbone mentioned so theres no chance of piston to valve contact. then creep the pistons back up to TDC really slow/careful and put your timing belt back on.. make sure the plugs are out so you dont go knocking valves over thinking that its compression.

 

btw- if you are really pushing the limits of piston to valve clearance, you should be installing and degreeing the cams on an engine stand with only 4 valves in the head (one int/ex in cyl 1 and cyl4) using dummy springs and clay. this way you only have a few valves to risk, and at any time you can push the valve open with your thumb and read an indicator to tell you the clearance. the clay will show you the valves imprint and gives a good idea if the reliefs are wide enough. a drastic change in duration on huge domes with oversized valves could leave you with a valve that doesnt fit within the perimeter of the valve relief.

another way to check that is to put the head on with a gasket and no valves, bring it to TDC and insert a 5.5mm sharpened rod into the guide hole to poke the piston a little. then scribe the circumference of the valve face from that dot and see if it fits in the pocket.

the time you save cutting corners usually costs the most.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike_belben@yahoo.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

lol.. i cant even make time to finish an associates..

thanks for the love tom, xoxo.. hey when you try air do you put a rubber stopper in that hole near the distributor? i machined a new fitting that plugs a quick disconnect airline right into the front of the head in that 10mm bolt hole. havent tried it yet tho.. since my compressors are huge i dont expect any problems.

about locking with air, if your cams are stupid big like Pro3s or something, slip the timing belt off and put the pistons all at half bore and turn the cams over with a wrench and a timing belt on the camgears as Tbone mentioned so theres no chance of piston to valve contact.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I did it without taking the belt off just take out the cam bolts out with the piston at tdc overlap turn the cam until the valves are closed enough for the pins to line up put 60psi to the vtec port, check to see the mid rocker is locked then turn the cam back to the 0- position and remove the air hose and it will stay locked in vtec as long as you don't turn the cam back to closed valves. I did it with a 1 horse compressor. You do this one cam at a time. I only need the air for 30 seconds at most. Dan


Modified by Dan Ruddock at 11:28 AM 5/11/2006


Modified by Dan Ruddock at 4:56 PM 5/11/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dan Ruddock &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I had .050" intake and .080" exhaust. This was my don't go beyond point. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i found that in another thread. Is this a recommended distance or should i go with something closer or further apart for valve-to-piston clearance? I actually dont even know if this is more on the safer or dangerous side. Some opinions would be great. Thanks!!!

 

its getting close.. the exhaust is the one you really want to keep tabs on.

 

ok thanks

 

hEhE..I got one of these "size of the car compressors" I need to clay my engine setup as well.

 

so does the mike belbin kit make it easier to check piston valve clearance or is it an additional tool you NEED to check piston valve clearance??

found this online

http://www.c-speedracing.com/h...y.php