I have seen a lot of debate recently on which exhaust to get for ITR, and what diameter of piping (or tube) to get. Here is one for you guys. I just picked up the Spoon header, Kakimoto R, and Kakimoto test pipe last week. And here is the dyno results. The number seem to be low, but I am not too worry about that since I have heard some dyno give higher number than the others. I am EXTREMELY HAPPY with the dyno tuning, money well spent. Just look at the power gain I have before and after dyno tuning.

[img]community.webshots.com/storage/1/v2/5/15/12/35151512FySizP_ph[/img]

Baseline
B18C5 stock bottom end, Toda B, custom CAI, Spoon header, test pipe, Spoon N1 and stock b-pipe, chipped ECU (higher redline), and VAFC (VTEC @ 6700rpm).
-No tuning, just install everything and do a baseline run.

Run 08
After VAFC and cam gear tuning
-Added fuel from 3000rpm and up, especially after 5000rpm.
-Cam gear set at +3, 0, it lost power when I retard the exhaust cam gear.

Run 18
Kakimoto R 70mm catback and Kakimoto test pipe installed. More VAFC tuning only.
-Added more fuel with VAFC
-Looked like VAFC alone can't provide enough fuel
-Larger injectors and a FPR will be next.
-Check out the gain in the low-midrange. Who said 70mm exhausts would make you lost low-end torque?
-I would never think changing the exhaust alone would give this much power, to the Kakimoto R.

It is obvious that I haven’t get the full potential out of this set up yet, especially after I installed the 70mm Kakimoto R. It seem like I still need a lot more fuel on the top end, but that’s the best I can do with the VAFC alone. I would two thumb up for the Spoon header and Kakimoto R, and I would highly recommend people that have Toda, JUN, or Skunk2 cams to get this exhaust, so there wouldn’t be any bottleneck in the exhaust system.

I wonder how much of the gain is from removing the bottle neck alone, how much is from the adding fuel, and how much is from the 70mm exhaust. Overall, I am VERY happy with the tuning results and the potential this set up have.

Any suggestion on what I can do to get the full potential out of this set up? I know higher CR and probably more fuel would help. What else? Ideas, suggestions, flames, and whatever are all welcome.





[Modified by EGtoR, 1:00 AM 5/22/2002]

 

well, i think the mid pipe resonator in that exhaust is quite a restriction

 

181whp with toda's spec b

 

That what I thought too, may be I can replace it with something else. But I am not sure if I can to cut up the exhaust. Right now, everything fit perfectly, everything just bolt up.

Number is not that important, since some dyno give lower reading than others. What I am happy about is the gain from the header, exhaust, and tuning.




[Modified by EGtoR, 3:44 PM 4/9/2002]

 

Yes indeed, it is pretty low comare to some ppl here on the board. The lowest I saw was 185whp but now this will be the lowest.

 

I'm running a Toda Header with a 2.5" carsound cat and a Kakimoto R catback on my 95 GSR. with a test pipe and an Apexi Dunk catback I was making like 190 corrected WHP on the dyno with Toda B's, headwork and chip.

With the addition of the 70mm exhaust and the carsound cat....I'm hoping that it didnt have any negative effects on my power output.... Well, only the dyno can tell I guess....

 

What kind of dyno was this? Any other dyno's in your area.

 

I've seen 172whp with spec B's before. It was on this board, I do not remember who though. Those numbers are not great, but not terrible either. Get a FPR and I think you'll make more power.

Good luck with everything

 

That's some low number for Spec B. It must be the dyno or he just have a weak engine. I have see as much as 15whps difference between difference dyno, so may be he will have 195-200whps on a dyno that give out high reading.

But if you compare the 2nd and the last run, the Kakimoto R gained 4peak whps and almost 7 to 10whps from 5000 - 7000rpm over the Spoon N1. So you would see a even lower number for spec B if he hasn't get the Kakimoto R over the Spoon N1, right?

Can you say Kakimoto R and Spoon N1 ?

Also, looked like he is running lean up top in a three runs. Go get the the FPR and larger injector, or may be fuel pump and go tune it again!!!

 

You can't say that Its apples and Oranges. If he put the Kakimoto on with his STOCK B pipe like he had with the Spoon N1 Then it would be a fair assumption, But You can't because with the Spoon he was using a Stock B pipe and with the Kakimoto it was a full cat back.

Test the Spoon N1 again with a 2.5" B pipe with a Normal resonator against the Kakimoto and its resonator Then we will see who comes out on top

 

Your WHP looks normal, but your trq numbers look slightly low. This could just be something w/ your new Super Free-Flowing Exhaust or just a thing w/ the type R's.
176whp 129 trq . But like you said before Dyno's read diff. Glad you are happy...

 

Totally agreed but the thing is I ran a 50.8mm exhaust (2" OD) and I hit 210whp with STOCK injectors and FPR so enough said ?

I also agreed with Mike. Why are you comparing a stock ITR B-pipe + Spoon muffler ? Shall you compare it with Spoon N1 + 2.5" B-pipe ?

Why are you starting to hate Spoon ? There must be some reasons

P.S. I never ever say kakimoto is please beware of that.


[Modified by AJ PwR, 10:38 PM 4/9/2002]

 

Same here

 

I said that base on the dyno number, he did gain A LOT by switching from Spoon N1 to Kakimoto R, the torque number is EVEN LOWER with the Spoon N1 too. Also, stock ITR b-pipe is not that bad, if not, there won't be so many non TypeR Teg owner watch to upgrade to it. Enough said!!


AJ PwR: I didn't hate Spoon, actually I think the Spoon header is !!!!

 

yeah i think your tq numbers look really low to me.

 

It wouldn't be too bad if it didn't have this..
Thanks to XR4Racer for this pic.


And have a mismatch like this when one replaces the cat with a JDM header install..



[Modified by SMSP, 1:20 AM 4/10/2002]

 

Yeh I guess, but didn't almost all the aftermarket exhaust have that bottleneck too?

I think you better show these pics to people who are looking for the ITR b-pipe for their GSR.

 

The ITR is 1-3/4" ID. The Tanabe has the worst of the 60mm systems I've seen, 1-7/8" ID x 2" long. Most of the other 60mm systems stay the same right up until the flange so the ID at the flange is the same as the tube ID. The Type One necks ever so slightly down to a flange ID of 57.5mm which is probably the ID of most of the 60mm systems out there and then quickly opens to the 2-1/2" OD (63.5mm ) but I'm not sure of the wall thickness and therefore the ID.

 

So a bottleneck is still a bottleneck, no matter it is ITR, Tanabe, or Type One, you will make more power by getting rid of the bottleneck with one of your adaptor, right?

I think I should save all the post by SMSP on exhaust and make a book on how to make the best exhaust.

 

Come on guys, no need to fight over an exhaust. I know I have really low whps and weak torque number for the spec B, but I think an exhaust wouldn’t make or break a set up, so I wouldn’t blame it on the Kakimoto exhaust for the low number(Remember, I have EVEN LOWER number with the Spoon N1). I think with Toda Spec B set up, the header choice, fuel/ignition tuning, and even CR would have a much greater affect on power than an exhaust.

As for Spoon N1 vs. Kakimoto R, I don’t really care about axle back vs. catback and free flow vs. restrictive. All I know is the dyno showed me that after I installed the Kakimoto R, I GAINED close to 11whps mid-range, 4 whps peak, and 5 lbft of torque over the Spoon N1. From the results, it made me believe that on a high lift cams set up, a catback is definitely better than an axle back, and the Kakimoto R 70mm would get my recommendation now.(I will change my mind if I see something better.) Also, it showed that the 70mm piping is NOT TOO BIG too; it did gain power everywhere, with NO LOSS on torque anywhere. Will other 60 or 63mm diameter catbacks be better? May be or may be not, I can’t say. But I rarely see that much gain in power by changing the exhaust alone on a NA car, so I don’t understand why people would say the Kakimoto R is restrictive and not good.

TypeRmsm: I think a Spoon N1 with a true 2.5” ID b-pipe would definitely make a little more power up top since it is an N1 style muffler, but I doubt there would be much of a difference, since the Kakimoto R muffler is straight out already. Another problem is I don’t see any 2.5” ID b-pipe available yet and there would be a mismatch where the b-pipe connect to the Spoon N1, since the Spoon N1 is not 2.5”ID. Also, another thing I like about the Kakimoto R is its sound; it is deep, but much quieter than the Spoon N1 w/ stock pipe. I think I can get more power up top by using a larger b-pipe (= louder??) with the Spoon N1, but I don’t want to wear an earplug to drive either.

AJ PwR: Is there anything Mike said that you don’t agree? Anyways, I know your powerful Civic made over 200whps with the Amuse 50.8mm exhaust, but I want to drive my car on the street without using my whole pay check to pay for the excessive noise pollution tickets. I wish I can have your engine set up and your N1 spec. Spoon cams too, but too bad Spoon won’t sell it to me.

VTEC-MAN 95GSR: I am sure you will be happy with your Kakimoto R with Spec B set up. Did you get yours from BPT too? What did you *** dyno tell you so far?

Mafay2: I wouldn’t give a thumb down to the Spoon N1; I think it’s just not good enough for this set up. I think it work fine with a stock Type R. Also, I think the low number may have something to do with the Spoon header, so I wouldn’t give it two thumbs up just yet.

B2Finity: It is a Dynojet, and I won’t be going to see any dyno in the near future.

OK, enough with telling me how low the number is. It time for you guys to tell me what I can do to get MORE POWER. Please don’t just focus on the exhaust; I am sure there is other thing in this set up that need to look after first before the exhaust. Thank You!

 

Any suggestion on what I can do next to get more power?

I am thinking of replace the Spoon header with a Toda header, since I have heard a lot of good thing recently on how good the Toda header is with Toda cams.

More fuel? What FPR or injectors to get? Will I need a bigger fuel pump?

Better intake? Maybe a short ram over a CAI?

 

Hondata

 

If you willing to spend the $$$ go Hytech !

 

CTR pistons, and Hondata. you should be close to 200 after that.

Cams love high compression!

Bryan

 

any FPR and 310 injectors should be perfect.
yeah the top end is low but i love the midrange, but i'm still getting juns