So anyone following the B16, Buddy Club 3's and valvesprings thread will know the story.

Tonight I dynoed my 99 Si with a stock B16A, just a short ram intake, stock exhaust.
Installed are Buddy Club Spec 3+ cams and ITR/Portflow valvetrain.
Rev limit is stock 8200, and the car was tuned with a VAFC-2.
Timing set at 16 BTDC.

I won't have dyno sheets until later tonight but here is a rundown of what went on.
Keep in mind it was a cool evening.

With cams, and ZERO changes to the VAFC it put down 146hp. The graph was terrible, and there was a massive dip at VTEC X-over, entire graph was rich.
To get rid of the dip we had to keep moving up vtec x-over, ended up liking 6300.
We took fuel out bascally everywhere, and ended up with about 153whp, 104wtq (there may be a higher run #, I don't have printouts of all runs and he said one run was high that I do not have a printout for) Average was clearly in the 150-154 range.
The graph is retarded smooth, dyno guy has never seen a vtec car with a graph that smooth.
This car dynoed if I remember, 139whp, 95wtq with just the short ram intake, on the same dyno a couple years ago.

Its a completely different car now, ALOT quicker than the stock B16A, and the increase in power is everywhere, most noticable in the midrange, 4000-6000rpm.
The graph was still going up at cut off, 500rpm or so more probably would not hurt.

So, do these cams work? Yes. Are they worth the money? Yes, I am into this setup for about $1000 CDN, new cams, used Valvetrain from SlickGSR on H-T, and a used VAFC-2.

Dyno graphs come online later when I get them, or maybe tomorrow.
Thanks for looking.

 

Nice. I put down the slightly higher peak numbers in a full bolt-on 99 Si. I'd like to see how much more area under the curve I'm sure your car has.

 

I bet you're loving that fatty midrange that comes with the bc3+ I sure do

 

Waiting for the graph. good #s for a stock motor, with a CAI, header and good exhaust you could probally see another 10-15hp and 5-10 tq.

 

I was suprized to have to move vtec x-over up so high, but I could not get rid of the big dip at the x-over, no matter what I tried.
Anyone have any idea why?

 

Waitin for dyno sheet

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JerkEm1 909 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Waitin for dyno sheet</TD></TR></TABLE>
me too just bought them for my si too, cant wait to put them in!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pmachan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was suprized to have to move vtec x-over up so high, but I could not get rid of the big dip at the x-over, no matter what I tried.
Anyone have any idea why?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Set vtec to 8k, and tune
set vtec to 3k and tune
overly power graphs.
select vtec rpm engagement at intersection of two power graphs. .

Thats how you optimize vtec, and reduce the likely hood of dips.

FYI, my vtec on my stock block b17 is around 6200.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pmachan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was suprized to have to move vtec x-over up so high, but I could not get rid of the big dip at the x-over, no matter what I tried.
Anyone have any idea why?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah the primaries on these and many other cams like it are PHAT. Makes power longer before you need to switch to secondaries. Plus it's a bone stock B16A2 with just an intake. I'm surprised actually it's not higher. I had a better power curve in my old car with Skunk2 stage 1's then with Toda Spec B's. My x-over with stage 1's was like 5,800. With Spec B's, 7,200 Rev limit 9,200.

 

you need an after market header and a decent street exhaust. nothing too fancy but you'll hit 160's no problem. 62mm t-body will def. benefit you as well. if you tune the cams.. alot of peopel get great results with +2 on the intake side. i ahve a freidn running +8 on the intake and those were his best results

 

+2 on the cam gear for the intake side.

 

Oh, and congratulations. Glad that you have fallen in love with these cams too.

 

So why is it exactly that many cars can run a lower vtec x-over, while my stock B16 just can't make use of the cams?
Exhaust bottleneck?

 

nice, in for the dyno sheet. do you have an b16a2 or a b16a?

 

B16A2 in a 99 SiR (cdn)

Here is one of the sheets where we were trying to get rid of the dip, ended up with x-over at 6300.
I know the A/F smashes rich, but changing it did nothing to help.

 

Looks pretty good. Get a CAI, header and a 2.5"mandrel exhaust as well as tuning with a program like crome or hondata and you'll be really happy with the results.

 

Your not really *that* rich. If you notice on your AF, you are relatively leaner between 4500-5000 RPM compared to the rest of your powerband. At about 1000 farther down, your powerband dips down. On top of that, you didn't advance your intake cam gear any did you? If you do a search, most people with the same cams, tend to run a couple of degrees advanced on the intake cam. Myself included. Granted I'm running more displacement, but it should help you a little too. Don't go crazy with the cam gear adjustments though, each degree goes a long ways, assuming you are going the right way. One more thing, between 3000-3500 RPM, your AF also leans out a little, then at 4000-4500 RPM, your torque curve dips slightly as well. Don't get me wrong, you still have a very nice power curve, but those are areas that still have potential to be smoothed out.

 

my old b16a2 made 165whp on ctr/itr cams.
the only other mods that were made in comparison were straight pipe, AEM CAI, rsr exhuast and 4-1 header

my recommendations.....get that sucker to breathe on the exhuast side

 

I don't have cam gears, maybe I'll try and find a used set, 2 deg advanced on th eintake reall y make a difference?
I know I need a header and exhaust, but I do like the low noise of the stock system, and I am not sure if another 10whp is worth another $1000.
I am still confused on the vtec x-over thing, why would it fall off at Vtec if there was a bottleneck in the exhaust, especially since once over 6500 is screams to the limiter where it has to flow more?

 

You can get more power if you switch to OBD1 and tune with crome.

 

put cai or air box OEM.. with a exhaust system you will get more more power... fact!

 

2 degrees cam timing makes all the difference in the world. That equates to 4 degrees of crank timing. Let me put it this way...there is 3 degrees more overlap between the CTR cams and the 96-98 ITR cams. While we aren't talking about monsterous power differences here, that two degrees will determine if your valves will be open at just that right momen so that you can draw in maximum efficiency from the air-fuel being ignited. That same 2 degrees will also play a role in how well your engine idles, and how smooth the power delivery will be.

 

good numbers. VTEC crossover seems a lil higher. I think we got ours to work perfect around 5400-5600

we made 153/104 with our B16a.

Specs
JDM B16A
Mugen head gasket
AEM Cai
Mugen 4-1 header (dented..)
2.5" exhaust with two resonators, no muffler
Buddy Club III+ with Portflow valvetrain
Stock head, stock manifold & throttle body, stock bottom end.

Tuned @ Blacktrax w/ Hondata S200 by Jei

Blacktrax dyno seems to read slighly lower than most other dynapacks.

Our B18C Type R with Toda B's made 190/134
our B18C GSR w/ITR head & CTR cams made 170/125
our B16A with BCIII+ made 153/104

 

Your a/f is dipping down into the high 11's try leaning that out to at least high 12's to mid 13's and raising your vtec engagment to 6400-6500. If you notice your highest Tq point is at the area where your a/f is fair

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crixzc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your a/f is dipping down into the high 11's try leaning that out to at least high 12's to mid 13's and raising your vtec engagment to 6400-6500. If you notice your highest Tq point is at the area where your a/f is fair</TD></TR></TABLE>

Amen...the graph looks rich .....mid 13's and the power will come up

I made 156whp on a stock JDM B16 with a 3" shorty and a Kteller 2.5" header back exhaust --- impressed myself and the guys who witnessed it --- my C5 baselined at 159whp on the same dyno --- whether its a fluke or a monster I am interested to see some more power gains with a header and cams --- these BC3's sound good

My C5 ended up at 175whp with some VAFC/cam gear/DC junk header tuning ---- vtec was at 4800 on that

Some tuning and exhaust and I think the numbers will be even more impressive after the cam change