I'm fixing to rebiuld tranny and was going to buy a PG LSD because they are so cheap compared to real LSD's and thought i would ask if it were a good idea?

 

no personal experience...but have heard it being called Phantom Slip. Often.

 

seems to be a good deal for cheap LSD.

$265 pretty cheap.

 

Phantom Grips are a bad idea!!!

As everyone know, LSD makes it so that both wheels can turn to privide better traction. And the phantom Grips do that. But the way the do that is to completely bind your spider gears together. By doing this both wheels will spin together and the torque will be distributed to both wheels, which is good for stright line acceleration. The problem is that, unlike a true LSD, both wheels must spin at the same rate ALL THE TIME with the Phantom Grip due to this. This is a problem when you make a turn. As you are turning (part of a circle) each wheel is a different distance form the center axis. Therefore, the out side will has to travel a greater distance than the inside tire in the same amount of time. So, the outside wheel needs to spin faster than the inside wheel. But the Phantom Grip prohibits that. This causes a lot of extra stress on your front end. It will definately cause your tires to wearout prematurely. Hopefully it won't break anything. But I definately think it will eventually cause your front end to fatigue as well. I'm willing to bet that you would feel something binding up or trying to hold your care back when you are creeping through a tight turn.

However, I have no experience with the Phantom Grip, and I do not know anyone that has one. But the theory doesn't sound very good (unless you only have to drive in straight lines). I, personally, would not get one and would not recommend it. If you are going to go through the time, effort, and money to rebuild a tranny, I suggest you do it right and get a true LSD.

 

So you're saying the PG simply locks the diff all the time? I'm not sure about that, although I have heard that it's not a good product.

 

I'd like to know if thats really true about the wheels spinning at the same rate all the time with the PG LSD.

And I'm looking to get a JDM B18C1 with LSD. Is that one a true LSD or is it one that is crap like PSU-TEG says?

 

phantom grip sucks

 

i heard the same thing. quaife is the way to go. ben at importparts.com is having a groupbuy on em. the PG LSD is cheap.. but you get what you pay for.

 

Can you prove a link to this groupbuy?

 

Quaife

 

Well, like I said... I have no personal experience with PG LSD, nor do I know anyone that does. But I have seen them, and how they are installed in some artical in SCC, or some other Mag. It is simply two flate pressure plates that are spring loaded. (This is why it sounds like such a good deal for a LSD) When installed and the springs are released, the plates apply an extream amount of pressure to the spider gears, like a brake pad on a rotor. The high pressure springs provide enough friction force to keep the spider gears from slipping on the pressure plate (supposedly... this is why the don't always work so well, and sometimes slip. Sometimes the spring doesn't apply enough pressure to keep them from slipping) Buy doing this, it mechanically locks the spider gears so that the spin together all the time.

And as for the down side to this, I will refer you to my previous post....

Also, feel free to correct me if I am wrong about how the spider gears work. But I don't see how they can be self adjusting so that it only ingages when you need it to, and doesn't bind them together when you don't.




[Modified by PSU-TEG, 4:04 PM 4/3/2002]

 

I wish someone who has a Phantom Grip would post on here. I would like to hear the opinion of someone who has actually used one. I saw one in action at a local track in a B18C1 powered hatch, and it launched great, but I don't know how good it would be in a daily driver. I'm going to purchase an LSD sometime in the future, but I hate to have to fork out the $$$ for a Quaife.

 

have a friend that has one, he has never had a problem with it, doesnt gripe about it in the curves either, only thing is sometimes it looks like its not working. Other than that its cool. He doesnt auto-x or anything, mainly drag races.

 

I'm looking to get a JDM B18C1 with LSD. Is that one a true LSD or is it one that is crap like a Phantom grip? Somebody clear that up please, cause I won't get it otherwise

 

its probably that same LSD out of a stock Type-R tranny....

 

If your friend hasn't had any problems with it, and it sometimes looks like it isn't working.... that's prbably because it isn't working. The PG is just two machined plates that are springloaded. And they are trying to apply enough friction force to move both spider gears together, while submerged in a lubricant (oil). Now, that is kind of a contradiction, don't you think? Hence, why it has the nick-name "Phantom Slip"

 

does anyone actually experience the pg lsd personally. i believe you guys about what you say but i would like to hear some first hand experiences. thanks

 

PG sucks ***. I bought one for my Prelude and pulled apart my tranny to install it. It was too large and wouldn't fit in the differential. So I emailed the company and they pretty much didn't know what to say except that some prelude diffs were made by different suppliers and had different specs.

Great, I got a refund, but was out the fricking 10 hours I wasted on dropping and reinstalling the tranny...

Get a real LSD or nothing at all.

 

i have seen AT LEAST 3 tranny's fucked up because of the phantom grip!! save your money!!

 

thank god for this site. it saved my *** again. thanks a lot people. its always good to know the facts, ill be sure to pass them on.
PG

 

The Phantom LSD is no good. Its so cheep for a reason. Go with quaife!!! They are very well know and have a great reputation.
Phantom
Quaife

 

I ran it on my car, it was fine. I know a few guys who have them, all no problems. Also, I know a 9 second SE-R with one... also no problems. Good experiences here

 

I talked to a guy who does alot of off road racing in his CRX and he has had it in for 3 years and has had no problems in fact his team member bought a Mugen LSD and the guy said it was a good LSD but not as good as the PG because the PG gripped better coming out of turns, so he took out the mugen and reinstalled PG and sold the Mugen.

PG

 

yeah i knew some kid who used it for drag racing... no complaints.

 

A frend of mine put one in his neon. It worked but it seemed to be fairly harsh. It seemed like one wheel would spin a couple rotations and then they would lock. The problem was that it wasn't predictable. While autocrossing, the PG some times seemed as if it would lockup mid turn and yank the car through, other times it was like it wasn't working at all. In my opintion it made the driver look bad and his times weren't so hot.

Quafe prices have come down(less than a G). Figure 250 for the pg and and hour or so to get it into the diff once the trans is apart. your probably at 325 and you aren't sure it will even work. Once you add in trans removal, install and tear down the price for labor gets high. I'd want to KNOW that what I was putting in was definately going to work.