Bense

Edit: November 27, 2020 - 08:39am - Restoring this posts original contents from Previous edit, which pointed to https://bensebuilt.livejournal.com/2005/11/30/
I had to restore my BenseBuilt livejournal account in order to retrieve this original writing of mine. Restoring for historical purposes.

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holy crap. I reread this old post and I can't believe how cluttered it was. I can't believe that I type this nonsense LESS THAN A YEAR AGO. So I will now rewrite this for a more clear presentation.


Keep in mind that this is all from memory. If you see a few errors, I apologize. I'm just too lazy to review my notes.

If you're into making your honda accelerate faster, I am sure that you've considered swapping out your d-series powered civic for a b-series swap. However b-series prices don't look like they're dropping, because you n00bs keep spending WAY too much money on b16 swaps, etc. And d-series prices are dropping because everyone is going to B-series. So I am sure that you non ex/si folks have heard. GET THAT Dx/CX TRANS OFF AND GET A EX/SI.

So then you start looking at the ratios. Yeah, the ex/si trans is a lot better than the other cx/vx/dx/lx/hx trans. But at the same time the ex/si ratios are worse than the LS transmission which b-series guys stay away from. D-series needs everything you can get to be competitive.

Nevertheless, the civic ex transmission
1st = 3.25
2nd = 1.9 (or 1.909 in y8 form)
3rd = 1.25
4th = 0.909
5th = 0.702
final = 4.25

RPM DROPS
1st -> 2nd = 0.584615385
2nd -> 3rd = 0.657894737
3rd -> 4th = 0.7272
4th -> 5th = 0.772277228

the dohc cable zc trans that was available in japan came with a long final drive but shorter 2-5 gears. Remember, alll 1st gears are the same at 3.25. The cable mainshaft (1st and 2nd) are not direct swaps over to hydro transmissions. But the 3-4-5 can be used It is only the jdm dohc zc cable transmission that had these wonderful 2-5 gears. And the USDM 1st gen teg (d16a1) is not a zc so don't even think about trying to use it. It is only the jdm dohc zc cable trans

JDM DOHC ZC Cable Trans ratios
1st = 3.250 (39/12) can't be used in hydro trans easily
2nd = 1.944 (35/18) can't be used in hydro trans easily
3rd = 1.346 (35/26)
4th = 1.033 (31/30)
5th = 0.878 (29/33)
final = 3.888 (70/18) can't be used in hydro trans easily

3rd gear fits fine, but the inner diameter of the zc 4th gear has to be modified to allow clearance for the synchro hub. This link shows you what needs to be modified: http://bensebuilt.livejournal.com/2007/02/05/

If you have access to a 88-91 crx hf or 4speed STD transmission, you can pull the 1.033 3rd gear out one of these and use it as 4th with no modifications.

Here's the ex trans with the zc 3/4/5
1st = 3.250
2nd = 1.900
3rd = 1.346
4th = 1.033
5th = 0.878
final = 4.25

1st -> 2nd = 0.584615385
2nd -> 3rd = 0.708421053
3rd -> 4th = 0.767459138
4th -> 5th = 0.849951597

not only are the gears shorter, but the rpm drops are a bit tigther.

As I am sure that there will be several questions:

Q: Can I use my stock 0.702 5th gear with the zc gears to maintain stock cruising rpm but have better accel in 3/4 gears?

A: Yes, you can. But be forewarned that the gap from 1.033 4th to 0.702 5th is huge and awful and annoying. If this doesn't bother you then go for it.


Q: I have a zc 4th gear and I see that you have to modify it to clear the hydro synchro hub. I can't find a hf/std trans to rob the 3rd gear from, but I can get my hands on a 1.0666 vx/cx 3rd gear, can I use it?

A: Yes, you can. It APPEARS that we can use the 1.0666 cx/vx 3rd gear as 4th in a hydro trans without ANY modification to the inner race. I gave a vx mainshaft gear to Mista Bone for modification and he says that it clears but it's close. We haven't confirmed this but we'll see. KEEP the zc 4th gears of 1.0333 (31/30) far away from your vx 1.0666 (32/30) the 30 tooth gears are close in size but they are not the same. you cannot mix and match them so don't even think about it. If you do get them confused, look at the inner race.

Q: Oh man, that crx hf 5th gear of 0.694 sounds awesome with this setup! Short 1-4 gears for accel and a tall 5th for cruising. THIS SOUNDS SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!

A: Yes, you can run the 0.694 instead of 0.702. But remember it is only 1.1% longer. If you are so hellbent on this and don't feel like using the 0.702. Just run the 0.702 and lie to yourself saying that it is the 0.694. There is no way in hell that you will ever be able to tell a difference unless you REALLY REALLY wanted to.

Q: What mph will my gears end with this setup?

A: I don't know your redline, nor do I know your tire size. Spend 30 seconds of your time and plug in the ratios in a gear calc and see for yourself. http://www.f-body.org/gears is a good one.

Q:When I put my two hybrid shafts together, the ex mainshaft 2nd gear hits the countershaft zc 3rd gear. How are you not having this problem?

A:When the shafts are placed in the clutch housing and the trans case is put on, when you lock the c-clip on the countershaft bearing, this lifts the countershaft up aligning all of the mainshaft and countershaft gears. This is not an issue when fully assembled.

BlueIntegraBoy

iTrader: (5)

Wow, good job on piecing the gears together.

1993civicex

nice man i can use this thnx

joe jigga

give you 300$ for it
hhaha good work!

Luserkid

Very nice indeed

Isnt there a 4.4 final drive out there for D series? or is it only B series?

Also, no LSD? If you dont plan on boosting you could pick up a D15BVTEC LSD tranny for pretty cheap and just take the LSD.

Bense

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luserkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Very nice indeed

Isnt there a 4.4 final drive out there for D series? or is it only B series?

Also, no LSD? If you dont plan on boosting you could pick up a D15BVTEC LSD tranny for pretty cheap and just take the LSD. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i really wish that i could find a 4.4 final drive. there are rumors that there was some euro car that had a 4.437 final drive in their HYDRO transmission.

there's a 4.437 in some jdm zxi first gen integras. as well in some carb'd euro d13b bali civic or something, but these only work in cable trannys.

As far as an LSD. I plan on getting an LSD in the near future, and pieceing together my two busted ex/si cases for a "big-bearing" case with all new bearings + LSD. Then i will just drop this hybrid gear set into it.

unfortunately my d15b7 head dropped a valve a few weeks ago and i ended up having to temporarily put my 8valve head back on. I have a d16y5 head that i'm going to be using for a crazy *** vtec-e build that i'm hoping to get 160whp out of. please don't reply to this motor setup in this thread, if you wanna read about it, reply see here: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1414454

Evs-One

Props on the work.

SRR makes a 4.7 FD and a 4.9 FD. I ran a 4.9 FD with LSD in my Si tranny....OMG, pure sex!!! 2nd gear was topping out around 55 mph @ 7300 rpm with 205-50-15's...it ripped.

I've made a few custom setups also. I've always just used a CX 3rd as 4th and never had a problem. 3rd to 4th shuft is NUTS close though.

I've used the JDM ZC 2nd and 3rd, and then CX 3rd as 4th, and then Si 5th, and had good luck with that. There's many options, but lots take machining. I don't really feel like sharing all the secrets though like some people

nocturnaldragon

Im going to have to save this info, Ive been messing with tranies in my spare time to try to make a hybrid of my own.

I have 1 each of an SI-del sol DX and a Lx I belive

All with cases with the exception of the SI which had an unfortunete acident when the diff went bye bye.

lemon_juice

quick question. i got the jdm d15b lsd tranny, and i already read that srr final drives dont fit on my tranny. does this also mean i cant do the hybrid with the zc gearing also?

Bense

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lemon_juice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">quick question. i got the jdm d15b lsd tranny, and i already read that srr final drives dont fit on my tranny. does this also mean i cant do the hybrid with the zc gearing also?</TD></TR></TABLE>

the only thing that's different is the bolt pattern for the ring gear on the differential, if you were to run a different lsd, you could run the srr final drives.

other than the bolt pattern being different for the differential, the gears are swappable just like mine were.

Dancing is Forbidden

bense-the self proclaimed SOHC Tranny master.

Bense

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ih8jdm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">bense-the self proclaimed SOHC Tranny master.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i'm learning B-series too

Bense

weird, this post wasn't showing up in the search engine at all. I was about to flip out too cause i thought it had been deleted.

SOHCmaster

Thats cool

96accordlxf22b2

subscribed im wanna learn to rebuild shortley

97spooncivic

stevelive3

good stuff

Bense

this thing is now for sale.

FalkenSiR

Interesting info. I love hardcore tech stuff like this

Bense

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1573591

EDIT: SOLD FOR $580!


Modified by Bense at 8:20 PM 3/28/2006

audioguru76

and to think i was going to throw away the 2 96-00 CX trannies in my garage this weekend. I guess I'll put them on the shelf so I can possibly build one of these hybrid d series. too bad that 3rd gear is so hard to get ahold of.

great info btw! thanks

doodooheadfart

-JSpecEk*9-

benso i have a few questions for you. i jus put in a d16y5 tranny and i thought it would be shorter than the y7 tranny so i found out they are the same if not let me kno. second is there anyway to make my gears shorter like changing the final drive on my D ?? thanks for the help

Aquafina

iTrader: (3)

It's the same as Y7 coupe trans. But it has the big bearing case so you can put a LSD in it.

MFactory close gearset would work real well with the 4.058 FD.

mRek9R

as always! bense! 8)