cable LS have short gears than hydro LS tranny?
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Re: cable LS have short gears than hydro LS tranny? (shermanyang)
dude im not trying to call you out or say youre wrong...but i have a source that shows what youre saying is false...in fact....the hydro ls IS shorter than the cable LS and BY NO MEANS is the cable ls in ANY WAY COMPARABLE to a gsr hydro...
http://www.allmotorhonda.com/t...s.htm
keep in mind the bigger number means its shorter...not the other way around...
the cable ls values are ALL the way on the right...[USDM 90-93 LS]
by comparison of the hydro ls to the cable ls the ONLY gear shorter on the cable LS is the 5th gear..EVERY OTHER GEAR on the hydro ls is shorter..
http://www.allmotorhonda.com/t...s.htm
keep in mind the bigger number means its shorter...not the other way around...
the cable ls values are ALL the way on the right...[USDM 90-93 LS]
by comparison of the hydro ls to the cable ls the ONLY gear shorter on the cable LS is the 5th gear..EVERY OTHER GEAR on the hydro ls is shorter..
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Re: cable LS have short gears than hydro LS tranny? (shermanyang)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shermanyang »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes it does. the cable LS tranny is comparible to a hydro GSR tranny. the gears are almost the same.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Huh!?
Huh!?
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Re: cable LS have short gears than hydro LS tranny? (Sick00SiCoupe)
B-series Transmissions
In response to recent questions about different transmissions I think its important to shed some light into the ones available for our b-series motors. There are many differences between B-series transmissions and I've never found an article describing the positives and negatives of each unit. Below, you'll see transmission codes, the car it's found in, and whether or not it has factory LSD. It's important to realize that Honda didn't make it easy for us to distinguish between transmissions. For example, almost all transmissions found in Integra's are stamped S80. This includes the tall LS transmission and the ultra short JDM Type-R transmission. In some cases, the only way to determine which transmission you really have is to take it apart and count the number of teeth on the ring gear. Obviously, in most cases it's not practical to take your transmission apart to determine which one you have. To be safe when acquiring a transmission, you should identify the seller; try to identify the car and or motor it came with.
B16A (Cable), B16A2 (Hydro), B16A3(Hydro):
S4C, S80, Y80, Y21, Y1 (optional LSD)
As most of you know the B16A was featured in Japan between the years of 1989 through 2001. This engine has had several different transmissions mated to it causing some potential confusion.
First, it's important to realize that first generation B16A's came with cable transmissions. The Y1 came with optional factory LSD and should have LSD stamped on the transmission. Determining whether or not a transmission has LSD is very simple, just look into the differential and see if its opened or closed. For those not familiar with this, you'll either see a set of gears that form a closed cylinder, or you'll see an open differential with a bar splitting the middle.
Typically these transmissions have had weak synchro's in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears with 3rd gears crunching the most. Its also worth noting that all of the transmissions minus the Y1 have very weak open differentials making it essential that you upgrade if your putting a lot of power to the ground.
As far as gearing, these transmissions are all pretty short. Here is a listing of the gear ratios and final drive, courtesy of http://www.bseries.net.
1st: 3.230
2nd: 2.105
3rd: 1.458
4th: 1.107
5th: 0.848
Reverse: 3.000
Final Drive: 4.400
In conclusion, this transmission is good for all motor and should bring between 500-700 if its hydraulic while cable transmissions are worth between 400-600. Please be careful that the transmission you're buying doesn't have bad synchro's because a lot of them have been beaten on and this is the first problem you'll have. Plus, if you're making a lot of power, 170 to the wheels, be prepared to replace your differential because these can be broken with regularity.
B16B (Hydraulic):
S4C (LSD)
The transmission found in the Civic Type R is highly sought after and very rare. Its gear ratio's are identical to that of the B16A's but has a stronger limited slip and dual synchro's in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears. Expect to pay between 1000-1200 for a genuine CTR transmission because they're rare and well worth the price. Its also worth mentioning that these transmissions are Hydraulic type.
B17A1 (Cable):
YS1
This transmission is found on the rare "blacksheep" of b-series motors. The most important feature here is that its cable-type. This means you can bolt this into any 93 and older integra and 91 and older civic without having to change to hydraulic. The synchro's on this transmission are still considered weak, however the gearing is very good for all motor applications as its identical to the B16A transmissions. Finally, this transmission did not have factory LSD, so keep that in mind when someone is trying to tell you otherwise. Look to pay between 400-600 dollars for this transmission, although its going to be difficult to find and usually when you do, there is something wrong with it.
B18A1 (Cable):
YS1
Again, you'll see how Honda didn't help us out any with the stamping on this transmission. These transmissions however, are much different in there gearing. This transmission has a longer first and second gear with slightly longer 3rd and 4th gears. The final drive is still 4.40:1 making this a possibility for all motor applications, but not your best choice. You'll be able to find this transmission in 90-93 Integra's and they're all cable-type. The prices for these should range between 200-400 for clean, good working units. Paying anymore is pointless, as these transmissions are everywhere.
B18B1 (Hydro):
S80/Y80
This is probably the easiest b-series transmission to find because it's found in every non-VTEC 94-01 Integra. Most notably, this transmission is the longest of all b-series transmissions and has the weakest synchro's and weakest differential. The final drive is 4.266:1 and each of the gears is longer compared to its B16A counterparts. For boost, a lot of people like the gearing of this transmission, plus gas mileage is great and they're very cheap. Look to pay no more than 500 for a clean LS tranny because they're everywhere.
Here is a look at the Specs.
1st: 3.230
2nd: 1.90
3rd: 1.269
4th: 0.966
5th: 0.714
Reverse: 3.000
Final Drive: 4.266:1
http://www.hondaswap.com/forum...29796
Modified by redDAinteg at 11:39 PM 7/23/2005
In response to recent questions about different transmissions I think its important to shed some light into the ones available for our b-series motors. There are many differences between B-series transmissions and I've never found an article describing the positives and negatives of each unit. Below, you'll see transmission codes, the car it's found in, and whether or not it has factory LSD. It's important to realize that Honda didn't make it easy for us to distinguish between transmissions. For example, almost all transmissions found in Integra's are stamped S80. This includes the tall LS transmission and the ultra short JDM Type-R transmission. In some cases, the only way to determine which transmission you really have is to take it apart and count the number of teeth on the ring gear. Obviously, in most cases it's not practical to take your transmission apart to determine which one you have. To be safe when acquiring a transmission, you should identify the seller; try to identify the car and or motor it came with.
B16A (Cable), B16A2 (Hydro), B16A3(Hydro):
S4C, S80, Y80, Y21, Y1 (optional LSD)
As most of you know the B16A was featured in Japan between the years of 1989 through 2001. This engine has had several different transmissions mated to it causing some potential confusion.
First, it's important to realize that first generation B16A's came with cable transmissions. The Y1 came with optional factory LSD and should have LSD stamped on the transmission. Determining whether or not a transmission has LSD is very simple, just look into the differential and see if its opened or closed. For those not familiar with this, you'll either see a set of gears that form a closed cylinder, or you'll see an open differential with a bar splitting the middle.
Typically these transmissions have had weak synchro's in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears with 3rd gears crunching the most. Its also worth noting that all of the transmissions minus the Y1 have very weak open differentials making it essential that you upgrade if your putting a lot of power to the ground.
As far as gearing, these transmissions are all pretty short. Here is a listing of the gear ratios and final drive, courtesy of http://www.bseries.net.
1st: 3.230
2nd: 2.105
3rd: 1.458
4th: 1.107
5th: 0.848
Reverse: 3.000
Final Drive: 4.400
In conclusion, this transmission is good for all motor and should bring between 500-700 if its hydraulic while cable transmissions are worth between 400-600. Please be careful that the transmission you're buying doesn't have bad synchro's because a lot of them have been beaten on and this is the first problem you'll have. Plus, if you're making a lot of power, 170 to the wheels, be prepared to replace your differential because these can be broken with regularity.
B16B (Hydraulic):
S4C (LSD)
The transmission found in the Civic Type R is highly sought after and very rare. Its gear ratio's are identical to that of the B16A's but has a stronger limited slip and dual synchro's in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears. Expect to pay between 1000-1200 for a genuine CTR transmission because they're rare and well worth the price. Its also worth mentioning that these transmissions are Hydraulic type.
B17A1 (Cable):
YS1
This transmission is found on the rare "blacksheep" of b-series motors. The most important feature here is that its cable-type. This means you can bolt this into any 93 and older integra and 91 and older civic without having to change to hydraulic. The synchro's on this transmission are still considered weak, however the gearing is very good for all motor applications as its identical to the B16A transmissions. Finally, this transmission did not have factory LSD, so keep that in mind when someone is trying to tell you otherwise. Look to pay between 400-600 dollars for this transmission, although its going to be difficult to find and usually when you do, there is something wrong with it.
B18A1 (Cable):
YS1
Again, you'll see how Honda didn't help us out any with the stamping on this transmission. These transmissions however, are much different in there gearing. This transmission has a longer first and second gear with slightly longer 3rd and 4th gears. The final drive is still 4.40:1 making this a possibility for all motor applications, but not your best choice. You'll be able to find this transmission in 90-93 Integra's and they're all cable-type. The prices for these should range between 200-400 for clean, good working units. Paying anymore is pointless, as these transmissions are everywhere.
B18B1 (Hydro):
S80/Y80
This is probably the easiest b-series transmission to find because it's found in every non-VTEC 94-01 Integra. Most notably, this transmission is the longest of all b-series transmissions and has the weakest synchro's and weakest differential. The final drive is 4.266:1 and each of the gears is longer compared to its B16A counterparts. For boost, a lot of people like the gearing of this transmission, plus gas mileage is great and they're very cheap. Look to pay no more than 500 for a clean LS tranny because they're everywhere.
Here is a look at the Specs.
1st: 3.230
2nd: 1.90
3rd: 1.269
4th: 0.966
5th: 0.714
Reverse: 3.000
Final Drive: 4.266:1
http://www.hondaswap.com/forum...29796
Modified by redDAinteg at 11:39 PM 7/23/2005
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From: southern cali
Re: cable LS have short gears than hydro LS tranny? (redDAinteg)
so basically the cable LS and hydro LS are different, as the cable ys1 LS tranny is slightly different than the b16a/b17a transmissions. and also the final for the cable LS is 4.4 and the hydro LS is 4.26 making the ys1 cable LS tranny more comparable to the GSR hydro and more comparable to the b16a/b17a. IM GLAD I LOOKED IT UP CAUSE IT MAKES ME MORE HAPPIER ABOUT MY DA! 
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From: Tallahassee/Miami, Fl, USA
Re: cable LS have short gears than hydro LS tranny? (redDAinteg)
what are you talking about man...you just completely missed what was said in what you yourself posted...cable ls tranny is longer than a hydro ls..and they ARE NOT LIKE A GSR HYDRO TRANNY...but hey whatever makes you feel better about having it...and having a final drive simliar to a gsr tranny doesnt make it comparable to one...here some info...the gsr and type r ALL HAVE THE SAME FINAL drive...but IN NO WAY IS A GSR COMPARABLE IN SHORTNESS OF GEARS TO A TYPE R...i dont think you understand transmissions...be real with yourself...you think if a cable ls was this performance savy youd pick up one for less than nothing??? no...
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Re: cable LS have short gears than hydro LS tranny? (lVlemphizStylez)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lVlemphizStylez »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dude im not trying to call you out or say youre wrong...but i have a source that shows what youre saying is false...in fact....the hydro ls IS shorter than the cable LS and BY NO MEANS is the cable ls in ANY WAY COMPARABLE to a gsr hydro...
http://www.allmotorhonda.com/t...s.htm
keep in mind the bigger number means its shorter...not the other way around...
the cable ls values are ALL the way on the right...[USDM 90-93 LS]
by comparison of the hydro ls to the cable ls the ONLY gear shorter on the cable LS is the 5th gear..EVERY OTHER GEAR on the hydro ls is shorter..</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes you are correct to a certain point. the gears on the Cable tranny are longer...but once you add the final drive into the equation, the gearing is comparable to that of a hydro GSR. trust me on this, if you've had first hand experience then you'd say the same thing as well.
an example would be this...with my old LS tranny @80mph i was at 3.2k, my gsr i'm at 4, and my younger brother's DA he's also at 4k running 80mph. almost all his shifting points are the same on his DA compared to my LS-T/GSR tranny. that's why i consider these two trannies comparible.
http://www.allmotorhonda.com/t...s.htm
keep in mind the bigger number means its shorter...not the other way around...
the cable ls values are ALL the way on the right...[USDM 90-93 LS]
by comparison of the hydro ls to the cable ls the ONLY gear shorter on the cable LS is the 5th gear..EVERY OTHER GEAR on the hydro ls is shorter..</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes you are correct to a certain point. the gears on the Cable tranny are longer...but once you add the final drive into the equation, the gearing is comparable to that of a hydro GSR. trust me on this, if you've had first hand experience then you'd say the same thing as well.
an example would be this...with my old LS tranny @80mph i was at 3.2k, my gsr i'm at 4, and my younger brother's DA he's also at 4k running 80mph. almost all his shifting points are the same on his DA compared to my LS-T/GSR tranny. that's why i consider these two trannies comparible.
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From: Solving riddles, Gotham
Re: cable LS have short gears than hydro LS tranny? (lVlemphizStylez)
all i know is my cable ls gears are kinda short. comparison: my first car, 88 accord vs. 92 integra. heres what the gears redlined at:
accord integra
1st: 33 31
2nd: 63 55
3rd: 93 85
4th: over 120(highest i had it) 110
5th:
my accord redlined at only like 6250. integra: 6800
my turbo dsm had taller gears than the ls as well.
accord integra
1st: 33 31
2nd: 63 55
3rd: 93 85
4th: over 120(highest i had it) 110
5th:
my accord redlined at only like 6250. integra: 6800
my turbo dsm had taller gears than the ls as well.
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From: Cincinnati, OH
Re: cable LS have short gears than hydro LS tranny? (benb18a)
cable and hydro ls gears are the SAME, except that the cable has a slightly shorter 5th gear.
http://www.ff-squad.com/tech/temp/Bgears.htm
had you looked in the FAQ at the top of the page, you would have found this info.
http://www.ff-squad.com/tech/temp/Bgears.htm
had you looked in the FAQ at the top of the page, you would have found this info.
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From: Solving riddles, Gotham
Re: cable LS have short gears than hydro LS tranny? (LSvtec03)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LSvtec03 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">cable and hydro ls gears are the SAME, except that the cable has a slightly shorter 5th gear.
http://www.ff-squad.com/tech/temp/Bgears.htm
had you looked in the FAQ at the top of the page, you would have found this info.</TD></TR></TABLE>
so this explains why at 80 mph my engine is about 500 rpm higher than DC LSs at the same speed.
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Re: cable LS have short gears than hydro LS tranny? (shermanyang)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shermanyang »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yes you are correct to a certain point. the gears on the Cable tranny are longer...but once you add the final drive into the equation, the gearing is comparable to that of a hydro GSR. trust me on this, if you've had first hand experience then you'd say the same thing as well.
an example would be this...with my old LS tranny @80mph i was at 3.2k, my gsr i'm at 4, and my younger brother's DA he's also at 4k running 80mph. almost all his shifting points are the same on his DA compared to my LS-T/GSR tranny. that's why i consider these two trannies comparible.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yea i cruise around 4 at 80. i didnt know that the final was 4.4 on my tranny. you learn something everyday
yes you are correct to a certain point. the gears on the Cable tranny are longer...but once you add the final drive into the equation, the gearing is comparable to that of a hydro GSR. trust me on this, if you've had first hand experience then you'd say the same thing as well.
an example would be this...with my old LS tranny @80mph i was at 3.2k, my gsr i'm at 4, and my younger brother's DA he's also at 4k running 80mph. almost all his shifting points are the same on his DA compared to my LS-T/GSR tranny. that's why i consider these two trannies comparible.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yea i cruise around 4 at 80. i didnt know that the final was 4.4 on my tranny. you learn something everyday
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Re: cable LS have short gears than hydro LS tranny? (projectTeG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LSvtec03 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">cable and hydro ls gears are the SAME, except that the cable has a slightly shorter 5th gear.
http://www.ff-squad.com/tech/temp/Bgears.htm
had you looked in the FAQ at the top of the page, you would have found this info.</TD></TR></TABLE>
that website is wrong on account that it shows the hydro LS and cable LS being EXACTLY THE SAME! don't get your info from there cause it would mean they are EXACTLY THE SAME which they are not. ALMOST the same, but for the final drive on the cable LS is 4.4 and 4.2 for the hydro LS.
http://www.ff-squad.com/tech/temp/Bgears.htm
had you looked in the FAQ at the top of the page, you would have found this info.</TD></TR></TABLE>
that website is wrong on account that it shows the hydro LS and cable LS being EXACTLY THE SAME! don't get your info from there cause it would mean they are EXACTLY THE SAME which they are not. ALMOST the same, but for the final drive on the cable LS is 4.4 and 4.2 for the hydro LS.
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Re: cable LS have short gears than hydro LS tranny? (redDAinteg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by redDAinteg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that website is wrong on account that it shows the hydro LS and cable LS being EXACTLY THE SAME! don't get your info from there cause it would mean they are EXACTLY THE SAME which they are not. ALMOST the same, but for the final drive on the cable LS is 4.4 and 4.2 for the hydro LS. </TD></TR></TABLE>
probably just a mistake. everything else seems to be correct, even debatable issues.
probably just a mistake. everything else seems to be correct, even debatable issues.
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Re: cable LS have short gears than hydro LS tranny? (LSvtec03)
nope actually I am correct, in the helms manual:
Design Specifications from Helms Service Manual 1990-1993 Integra:
Low (1st)-3.166
2nd-1.857
3rd-1.259
4th-0.935
5th-0.742
Reverse-3.000
Final Reduction-Single Helical Gear...........4.400
Design Specifications from Helms Service Manual 1990-1993 Integra:
Low (1st)-3.166
2nd-1.857
3rd-1.259
4th-0.935
5th-0.742
Reverse-3.000
Final Reduction-Single Helical Gear...........4.400
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Re: cable LS have short gears than hydro LS tranny? (redDAinteg)
umm...what i meant was maybe the guys with the site made a mistake on that since everything else on that site looks correct.
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Re: (projectTeG)
well this was all being dabated on team-integra.net and finally it was all solved and this is what it came down to:
90-93 Overall gear reduction
1st - 13.9304 : 1
2nd - 8.1708 : 1
3rd - 5.5396 : 1
4th - 4.114 : 1
5th - 3.2648 : 1
94-01 Overall gear reducction
1st - 13.77918 : 1
2nd - 8.1054 : 1
3rd - 5.413554 : 1
4th - 4.120956 : 1
5th - 3.045924 : 1
which means the 94-01 is slightly longer in all gears, specially in 1st and 5th.
90-93 Overall gear reduction
1st - 13.9304 : 1
2nd - 8.1708 : 1
3rd - 5.5396 : 1
4th - 4.114 : 1
5th - 3.2648 : 1
94-01 Overall gear reducction
1st - 13.77918 : 1
2nd - 8.1054 : 1
3rd - 5.413554 : 1
4th - 4.120956 : 1
5th - 3.045924 : 1
which means the 94-01 is slightly longer in all gears, specially in 1st and 5th.
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Re: (redDAinteg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by redDAinteg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well this was all being dabated on team-integra.net and finally it was all solved and this is what it came down to:
90-93 Overall gear reduction
1st - 13.9304 : 1
2nd - 8.1708 : 1
3rd - 5.5396 : 1
4th - 4.114 : 1
5th - 3.2648 : 1
94-01 Overall gear reducction
1st - 13.77918 : 1
2nd - 8.1054 : 1
3rd - 5.413554 : 1
4th - 4.120956 : 1
5th - 3.045924 : 1
which means the 94-01 is slightly longer in all gears, specially in 1st and 5th. </TD></TR></TABLE>
well, that's a different way to look at it. comparatively, yeah, the gears are in effect slightly shorter, but they are physically the same gears 1-4.
90-93 Overall gear reduction
1st - 13.9304 : 1
2nd - 8.1708 : 1
3rd - 5.5396 : 1
4th - 4.114 : 1
5th - 3.2648 : 1
94-01 Overall gear reducction
1st - 13.77918 : 1
2nd - 8.1054 : 1
3rd - 5.413554 : 1
4th - 4.120956 : 1
5th - 3.045924 : 1
which means the 94-01 is slightly longer in all gears, specially in 1st and 5th. </TD></TR></TABLE>
well, that's a different way to look at it. comparatively, yeah, the gears are in effect slightly shorter, but they are physically the same gears 1-4.
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Re: (allmotor dc4)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by allmotor dc4 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">an ls tranny @ 80 mph is tached at 3.2k?? my ls is at like 3600 at 80mph whats up with that??</TD></TR></TABLE>
your tach or speedo could be off. or both.
your tach or speedo could be off. or both.
