Trying to BAR my h22 hatch.

car: 92 cx. 93 jdm h22 w/ lsd. aem short ram intake for 4th gen 'lude. walbro 190 lph fuel pump. everything else stock. brand new 02 sensor, changed oil 2 weeks ago, fairly new plugs and wires. high flow cat.

Went to the state ref in Alameda (very cool guy btw). Passed visual no problem, but failed the sniffer. Results.

Measured (Max Allowed)

15 mph Test
HC: 249 (121)
CO: .66 (.76)
NO: 2417 (807)
Co2: 13.9
o2: 0.4

25 mph Test
HC: 124 (96)
CO: .18 (.65)
NO: 78 (746)

Co2: 14.7
o2: 0.0

Timing: 14 BTDC (Ref said should be between 13 and 17, so I passed).
Before hand, ran the **** out of my car. However, it sat for at least 40 minutes before it got put on the sniffer.
I believe the extremely high nox at the 15 mph test was due to my cat not being warmed up since I was pretty low at 25 mph. Plan to go have a smaller cat put on for the next one and make sure to clean my egr with carb cleaner. But what could be causing my HC readings to be too high?
All info is appreciated.

 

try disconnecting injector #3. the car will limp along, but it'll drop the HC's. I don't know why specifically 3, but it's what i've heard and my old roomate passed emissions that way.

 

thanks. other ideas/tips?

 

stock intake maybe?

 

how would the stock intake change my HC or NOX?

 

I don't know i was just suggesting something sorry for trying

 

high flow cat
Put a obd2 prelude cat on there and you will pass.
I had a high flow and it mad me fail.
the obd2 cat made me pass soooooo clean.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by greatbiggiants &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> high flow cat
Put a obd2 prelude cat on there and you will pass.
I had a high flow and it mad me fail.
the obd2 cat made me pass soooooo clean.</TD></TR></TABLE>

im with him. i hear the "high flow" cats are made to barely pass. OEM cats however, are made to actually keep emissions low. switch your cat and im sure you'll pass easily.

 

which fuel pressure regulator are you using?

 

Were the 15mph readings taken before or after the 25mph ones? If they were taken first id say your cat was just not warm enough. If you look at the 25pmh reading(which im guessing was tested last) your NO #s went way down and your HC was already going down compared to the 15pmh results.

Or just like the other guys said it probably just the fact that its "hi flow" and not designed for emission test but off road use. Id just get an oem cat on there for the test and change it when your bar'd. I would still warm up the car right before the test though, when i got my hatch smogged the guy had my car on for about 10-15 minutes before he took the readings.

good luck

 

stock fpr. and yeah, the 15mph was done first. i'm also gonna use that "guaranteed to pass" emissions product as well for next time. thanks for the replies. i'll let you guys know how it turns out.

 

leave the car running until the test it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Braco11 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stock fpr. and yeah, the 15mph was done first. i'm also gonna use that "guaranteed to pass" emissions product as well for next time. thanks for the replies. i'll let you guys know how it turns out. </TD></TR></TABLE>

which stock fpr? the lude one or an accord one or the civic one? usually i see people put accord ones on since they usually use an accord rail, and the accord one has too high a pressure, you need the lude one. only reason i mention this is i see it all teh time, and most people dont even think of it.

 

A new cat IS NOT going to bring your NOx that much- EGR is the main component for lowering NOx levels(due to high engine temps). I would guess it's a possible misfire- High HC's indicate unburt fuel getting passed the combustion chamber(although the high flow CAT is helping much)
Also, you can't disconnect a FI- for 1, the ref will catch it, cause it'll throw a CEL

What were your IDLE readings?

 

no idle readings were taken. just did the 15 and 25mph test. The reason I think it's my cat though is because my NOX dropped significantly from the 15 to 25 mph test. oh, and it's a lude fpr

 

It's your cat. Trust me.

I had the same problem when I BAR'd my h22 eg. My 2.5" high flow cat wouldn't stay hot enough at idle and I would fail horribly with my NOx (gross poluter according to the test..heh) and my HCs were high too at the 15mph test.

Even if you drive the **** out of the car and heat the cat up, at idle it'll still cool down. You can keep the car on, but once you hand it over to the ref, he can do what he wants with it (like turn it off, that's what the ref did with my car).

So I went out and put on a 2" universal replacement cat from midas. That solved my problems and I was able to pass.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RAWB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A new cat IS NOT going to bring your NOx that much- EGR is the main component for lowering NOx levels(due to high engine temps). </TD></TR></TABLE>

You would be surprise how much a warmed up, properly functioning cat does with your NOx levels. I went to one of those test only centers and pretested my car before I changed out my high flow cat. The smog guy was really cool. He started to do the 15mph test and noticed right away that it was gonna fail. So he stopped it and just revved up the engine to about 3k and held it there. As the cat heated up, you could see the NOx levels just start to drop SIGNIFICANTLY on the computer screen (from 3000 to under 800!).

So basically the cat does ALOT!

Yes the EGR does significantly drop your NOx levels, but I was almost able to pass emission with a blocked off EGR (I didn't know it was blocked at the time ...stupid hondata IM gasket...heh). On one of previous pretests with the same smog guy, he warmed up my cat and then tested the car. I only failed NOx at the 15mph test [measured (max allowed), 850 (807)]. He then pointed out that my EGR system wasn't working.

Granted my readings dropped alot once I got the EGR working properly, but I was still almost able to pass without it.

 

i had similar problems when I 1st starting getting california BAR stickers in customer cars. Use a HUGE long car sound/magnaflow cat that is for trucks. You will for sure pass.

smaller cats need to be warm in order to lower NOX. most ref's do not allow the car to warm up. some are cool and will keep the car warm so it helps to pass.

I have passed many H22's obd1 swaps in california. PM me with any further questions.

AMS MIKE

 

thanks for all the replies guys. appointment is Thurs at 9am. I'll post my results.

 

<u><FONT COLOR="red">BUMP THIS POST!</FONT></u>

Try using the <u><FONT COLOR="red">SEARCH</FONT></u> function next time<FONT COLOR="red">!</FONT>

Yes, the <FONT COLOR="red">B20</FONT> is a truck motor, yes, it is an illegal swap. Conventional wisdom would agree with you, however, we use propane gas to pass any engine swap in any car. There are legal ways to smog a <FONT COLOR="red">B20</FONT>. Read on......

Illegal <FONT COLOR="red">B20</FONT> swap + propane gas <FONT COLOR="red">=</FONT> Alternative Fueled Emissions compliant engine swap. Alternative fuel is the key word here, forget the motor swap, with Alternative fuel, it is all about making the swap run clean. Even if the engine swap is a turbo GSR, Standalone with ITB's, once it is run on propane, all the performance mods are now legal because you can argue that the GSR, turbo, Standalone and ITB's are needed to take advantage of propane's 110 octane rating. This is cutting edge here, just because this is a loophole that is not commonly used, doesn't mean that it is BS.

Keep in mind that, once you remove the propane and re-tune your setup to run on 91 octane pump gas, you are no longer <FONT COLOR="red">100%</FONT> legal, but wait, there's more.... here is the good part.... the BAR referee sticker in your engine compartment doesn't specify fuel. So, when Johnny law does pull you over, all they do is scratch their heads and wonder how you BAR ref'd a turbo GSR, Standalone with ITB's....

Besides BAR reffing your engine swap there is another interesting loophole that keeps Johnny Law off your back, it is called smog exemption, this exemption is a one time emissions test on propane that certifies your vehicle as an Alternative fueled vehicle and smog exempts the vehicle <u><FONT COLOR="red">FOREVER</FONT></u>, with smog exemption, you will <u><FONT COLOR="red">NEVER</FONT></u> have to smog your vehicle ever again, even when you sell it. Smog exemption is a legal loophole that smog exempts your vehicle forever, no more fooling around with shady emissions shops.

If you look hard enough, there are legal loopholes for everything. Laws, mandates, regulations and government protocols are written by attorneys with legal loopholes and/ oversights written in, that allow everyday citizens to drive, smog, register and import any vehicle ever made on the face of this planet.

For the record, smog exemption, carb exemption, and BAR reffing are 3 completely different processes, these terms cannot be interchanged. BAR reffing, by far, is the most difficult and useless certification. Smog and Carb exemption are far better than a BAR ref'd swap because a BAR ref'd swap still must undergo strict emissions testing, while the smog/carb exempted vehicle doesn't. Also, Johnny Law can ref ticket a Bar ref'd car, but not a carb exempted car. The simple definition of a carb exempted car is a car that is exempted from all carb emissions mandates. Basically, local law enforcement can pop your hood, but, because the vehicle is both smog/carb exempt, it is therefore emissions compliant regardless of what turbo
<FONT COLOR="red">k20</FONT>, GSR or <FONT COLOR="red">b18</FONT> engine swap you may have, a smog/carb exempted car can legally drive around with a fully built turbo GSR with no emissions controls, and never get a referee ticket.

You gotta pay <FONT COLOR="green">$$$$$$$$</FONT> to play.......

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Modified by hazw8st at 9:28 AM 12/28/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by greatbiggiants &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> high flow cat
Put a obd2 prelude cat on there and you will pass.
I had a high flow and it mad me fail.
the obd2 cat made me pass soooooo clean.</TD></TR></TABLE>

hi

im trying to get my h22 civic passed, its running a 95 prelude engine.

do you think this part would fit the job to help with emmissions?

http://www.autopartswarehouse....53004
or this one?
http://www.performancepeddler....22624

thanks!


Modified by squarepusher at 2:06 PM 11/26/2006

 

it is your cat.... don't use that gareneed to pass crap. it ***** with your plugs and you have to completely run the bottle through the tank and use all ur gas. the ref i went to started my car real quick because he wanted the cat to be hot... i depends on the person.

 

ya like they've been sayin the cat is the problem, thats one of the reason why they are illegal here in cali

 

wow, this got brought back from the dead.

fyi, i'm BARd!!

 

congradulations! Did you have to go on the rollers when u had a stock engine? I want to know the year they do the roller test. also, what did u change to pass?