Hey all, I've been dealing with a dilemma for the past few months, and though you guys might have some insight.

My car is a DD and weekend warrior. I’m in my second full season of autocrossing (meaning an event almost every weekend from March to around October) in my STS civic, and have done about 7 or so schools in the last two years. I do an occasional open track day or HPDE as well, but they’re few and far between.

I’m currently running Eibach Pro-kits on AGX’s and a Comptech rear bar / tie combo; and I think I have outgrown the spring / shock setup. I have had some first place finishes, but as soon as anyone shows up with a well prepared car (and more experience), I can guarantee they’ll beat me; which I’m fine with. The problem is some newer guys with a lot less skill will show up with a stiff suspension, coilovers etc. and I have to struggle to stay ahead of them.

If I have a bad day, I end up at the bottom of the pack. The kicker was this weekend when I didn’t get a chance to walk the course, and was suffering from the heat, and got beaten by everyone who I’ve usually been faster then. They were all running high spring rates, big sways, more meat on their tires; but the difference between me and my closest competition was about 2.5 seconds (and only a few tenths from the next three positions above me).

I realize seat time is everything, and I preach that all the time; don’t mod, fix the driver etc. I think my driving skill has come a long way, and one of my friends who usually is in the top ¼ raw times (and usually 5 seconds faster than me) has almost identical times to me when driving my car. I have been told by many instructors that I’m doing just about everything right, and need to keep pushing myself harder. The thing is, I’m sure someone like Nate could hop in my car and whoop me, so that’s what’s holding me back from getting the GC / Koni setup.

So the real question is (after all that) how far do you take driver development before you actually pull the trigger and start to develop your car?




Modified by AutoXer at 4:18 PM 6/15/2005

 

I'd buy something small and light like a CRX or Miata. The Civic is still bulky compared to a tiny CRX. Of course good luck finding a CRX, although low mileage Miatas are plentiful in number.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AutoXer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So the real question is (after all that) how far do you take driver development before you actually pull the trigger and start to develop your car? </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's a tough one to answer.

At your point, you first need to decide if you're going to develop the DD (and make commuting less tolerable) or pick up a dedicated autox/track car. A Civic set up to perform well at the track is really too stiff for most people on the street.

As for when to start modding, I'd say once your consistent enough to notice the difference, you could start with simple, well developed mods (shock and spring combos for Civics would fall into this category). Just make sure to take it slow - doing a lot of things at once makes it impossible to know which modification made you faster (or slower).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">At your point, you first need to decide if you're going to develop the DD (and make commuting less tolerable) </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's really my only option at this point. I don't have space or money for a dedicated track car at this point. I realise an EK is not the ideal car, but I think I can make it at least do somewhat well.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As for when to start modding, I'd say once your consistent enough to notice the difference... Just make sure to take it slow - doing a lot of things at once makes it impossible to know which modification made you faster (or slower).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, I've had this car for four years (but only did 3 or 4 events the first two years). I started the first year in HS, and got tires the second season, which was a huge improvement. Then the third season, my shocks blew, so I did shocks and springs which put me into STS; so I did an intake at the time as well since I was already in that class (probably a big mistake). My times improved. Towards the end of the third season, I added the sway, and times improved once again.

I'm at the point where I can feel the change with shock settings and pressures. I can tell what the car is doing and (for the most part) why. I've been keeping a logbook as well, so I'm got my settings mostly dialed in for particular conditions.

That's pretty much why I've been considering upgrading. With my particularly poor setup, I can still beat much better prepared cars (on a good day, if I have an off day, it's all over) but it's definitely not easy. I sort of feel like I'm cheating myself out of more driver development almost; honestly I'm not even sure why I'm conflicted. I guess I don't want to jump in too fast and have a fast car with a slow driver.

 

Another option is to have one of your region's hot-shoes drive your car and see how much faster they can get around the course. That will give you two new "data points" - first, how fast you are relative to a known good driver, and second, what they think of your current setup.

 

You'll get mixed opinions here and a majority will probably tell you just work on the driver.

I don't agree with that though. You do want to work on the driver alot, but I learned at the same time while modding my car. As long as you still work on your driving just as you do your car development you can have fun doing both. I started off modding my car and it hasn't seemed to hurt me at all so far. To me driving a non modded car isn't even really much fun, and if i had listened to all the advice on here to just drive your car stock and work on driving only I probably would have quit auto-x. Half the fun is driving a car you set up well IMO.

 

At two years and 7 schools, you should have a pretty good grasp of what you are doing. If you want to add mods, add mods. This IS a hobby and not a job, you know.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by steverife &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> If you want to add mods, add mods. This IS a hobby and not a job, you know. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Haha... good point. I am an **** engineer, so I labor over these types of things. My girl (who's also my co-driver) has pretty much said the same thing to me; I think she may be tired of me debating over it every weekend.

 

The answer lies within your question grasshopper.

lol, Ive always wanted to say that.

If you dont want or cant afford a second vehicle add mods sparingly and with some insight...which it seems you already possess. Over modding a daily driver that is tough to live with is well, tough to live with.

 

Yeah, I'm thinking that should be my next plan of attack.