BARF1 From classy to ashy
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Re: BARF1 From classy to ashy (Chris F)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ha, cheaters. 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
ha. not really.
"WHEREAS it is not possible for the Court to find, on the basis of the evidence that it was provided with, that Lucky Strike BAR Honda deliberately committed fraud, their actions at the time of the emptying procedure of the vehicle after the event, and the fact that they did not use their right in accordance with Article 2.4, to address a request for clarification on the rules to the Technical Formula One Department of the FIA, show at the least a highly regrettable negligence and lack of transparency."
http://www.fia.com/mediacentre....html
the penalty might be understandable had this exact same situation not occured hundreds of times in the past. **** the FIA and their ridiculously unclear rules and the fact that they don't do anything about it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>ha. not really.
"WHEREAS it is not possible for the Court to find, on the basis of the evidence that it was provided with, that Lucky Strike BAR Honda deliberately committed fraud, their actions at the time of the emptying procedure of the vehicle after the event, and the fact that they did not use their right in accordance with Article 2.4, to address a request for clarification on the rules to the Technical Formula One Department of the FIA, show at the least a highly regrettable negligence and lack of transparency."
http://www.fia.com/mediacentre....html
the penalty might be understandable had this exact same situation not occured hundreds of times in the past. **** the FIA and their ridiculously unclear rules and the fact that they don't do anything about it.
what a crock of ****. The FIA is totally full of it and Max completely has his head up his ***.
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Re: BARF1 From classy to ashy (Jetydosa)
I'm dont understand your reasoning, they were asked to empty the tank and they didn't:
"The inspection revealed that on top of the 160 grams of fuel that was emptied, 8.92kg of fuel still remained in a special copmartment within the fuel tank and a further 2.46kg remained in the bottom of the fuel tank."
"These quantities remained in the vehicle after the BAR Honda team had confirmed "That's it" when asked if the draining process was completed."
"The facts in this case are very clear," Mosley told the BBC. "The team was asked to pump the fuel out of their car. They left 15 litres in the tank and told us it was empty. Under the circumstances, we feel they have been treated rather leniently."
"The inspection revealed that on top of the 160 grams of fuel that was emptied, 8.92kg of fuel still remained in a special copmartment within the fuel tank and a further 2.46kg remained in the bottom of the fuel tank."
"These quantities remained in the vehicle after the BAR Honda team had confirmed "That's it" when asked if the draining process was completed."
"The facts in this case are very clear," Mosley told the BBC. "The team was asked to pump the fuel out of their car. They left 15 litres in the tank and told us it was empty. Under the circumstances, we feel they have been treated rather leniently."
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Re: BARF1 From classy to ashy (Chris F)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ha, cheaters. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Way to go and read up on the situation before passing judgement
Chris - who feels that BAR got hosed.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Way to go and read up on the situation before passing judgement
Chris - who feels that BAR got hosed.
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Re: BARF1 From classy to ashy (Money Hou$e)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Money Hou$e »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm dont understand your reasoning, they were asked to empty the tank and they didn't:
"The inspection revealed that on top of the 160 grams of fuel that was emptied, 8.92kg of fuel still remained in a special copmartment within the fuel tank and a further 2.46kg remained in the bottom of the fuel tank."
"These quantities remained in the vehicle after the BAR Honda team had confirmed "That's it" when asked if the draining process was completed."
"The facts in this case are very clear," Mosley told the BBC. "The team was asked to pump the fuel out of their car. They left 15 litres in the tank and told us it was empty. Under the circumstances, we feel they have been treated rather leniently." </TD></TR></TABLE>
have you read about this situation either?
The car requires x amount of fuel to run properly. The secondary fuel cell was known about and not protested or found illegal. Cars are weighed after the event in raceable trim (i.e., with fluids, driver, etc). BAR proved their car was not below weight during the race.
So whats to not understand?
The FIA is out to prove they can do what they want whenever they want to do. The facts presented in the appeal were discounted and the FIA went about their agenda. No matter what bar did or said they would have been found guilty, because the FIA had already decided their guilt without a trial. Why? Maybe, instead they should go write rules that have no grey area or room for interpretation.
This is all about unclear rules, the 'rebel' seven teams wanting to start their own series, and Max and the FIA flexing their muscles.
refer to lance's post above.
"The inspection revealed that on top of the 160 grams of fuel that was emptied, 8.92kg of fuel still remained in a special copmartment within the fuel tank and a further 2.46kg remained in the bottom of the fuel tank."
"These quantities remained in the vehicle after the BAR Honda team had confirmed "That's it" when asked if the draining process was completed."
"The facts in this case are very clear," Mosley told the BBC. "The team was asked to pump the fuel out of their car. They left 15 litres in the tank and told us it was empty. Under the circumstances, we feel they have been treated rather leniently." </TD></TR></TABLE>
have you read about this situation either?
The car requires x amount of fuel to run properly. The secondary fuel cell was known about and not protested or found illegal. Cars are weighed after the event in raceable trim (i.e., with fluids, driver, etc). BAR proved their car was not below weight during the race.
So whats to not understand?
The FIA is out to prove they can do what they want whenever they want to do. The facts presented in the appeal were discounted and the FIA went about their agenda. No matter what bar did or said they would have been found guilty, because the FIA had already decided their guilt without a trial. Why? Maybe, instead they should go write rules that have no grey area or room for interpretation.
This is all about unclear rules, the 'rebel' seven teams wanting to start their own series, and Max and the FIA flexing their muscles.
refer to lance's post above.
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Re: BARF1 From classy to ashy (Chris N)
Yes they weighed out legally after the race, the stipulation is they were weighed again with the fuel gone, however BAR did not remove it all(it has nothing to do with the "Secondary" fuel cell and it's legality). Yes the punishment does not fit the crime, but the crime is negligence and that's what the FIA ruled.
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Re: BARF1 From classy to ashy (Money Hou$e)
they are ruling against bar in violation of the spirit of the regulations and probability of cheating arguments. Those are loose arguments at best.
If they were within regulations... how are they negligent? If the FIA chooses to ignore data and fall back on 'common understanding of regulations [that are not explicitly written]' ... ????
The FIA's ruling will not be supported in court tomorrow in France.
WTF DK? Changing your name? I would have known it was you bashing BAR.
I do seem to remember Williams and Toyota running illegal (bigger than regulations state) brake ducts at Canada GP last year... whoa at a track where brakes are abused heavily!!! Gee, that seems like the same 'trying to get an advantage' and 'violation of the spirit' of the rules.. in fact - that was a DIRECT violation of a specific rule! And all that happened to Toyota and Williams was their points were stricken from that race and that race only.
Now where did BAR honda have a DIRECT and explicit rule broke? Only implied, spirit, intent, etc. Rules based on spirit do not go over well in court!
And find me the clause in the rules that says "dry weight greater than 600kg". It doesn't say it, so don't you (or nate) use that angle. I guess you guys like to pass judgement like the FIA does.
If they were within regulations... how are they negligent? If the FIA chooses to ignore data and fall back on 'common understanding of regulations [that are not explicitly written]' ... ????
The FIA's ruling will not be supported in court tomorrow in France.
WTF DK? Changing your name? I would have known it was you bashing BAR.
I do seem to remember Williams and Toyota running illegal (bigger than regulations state) brake ducts at Canada GP last year... whoa at a track where brakes are abused heavily!!! Gee, that seems like the same 'trying to get an advantage' and 'violation of the spirit' of the rules.. in fact - that was a DIRECT violation of a specific rule! And all that happened to Toyota and Williams was their points were stricken from that race and that race only.
Now where did BAR honda have a DIRECT and explicit rule broke? Only implied, spirit, intent, etc. Rules based on spirit do not go over well in court!
And find me the clause in the rules that says "dry weight greater than 600kg". It doesn't say it, so don't you (or nate) use that angle. I guess you guys like to pass judgement like the FIA does.
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Re: BARF1 From classy to ashy (Chris N)
I know a lot of you guys are big BAR fans, but lets be honest. It is as simple as they did not make weight with all fluids drained. That's it, and all rules are slightly vague for the sole reason that the FIA can make final rulings on teams trying to stretch the rules, look at any other series and you will find the same.
And if you honestly think that a team will spend 50+ million a year on aero dynamics but they cannot make min weight or maybe have an extra pound to ensure they meet regulations... unfortunately they got caught, I am sure other teams are shiting their pants this week to ensure they also make weight because BAR is not the only team interpreting the rules to thier advantage.
-nate
And if you honestly think that a team will spend 50+ million a year on aero dynamics but they cannot make min weight or maybe have an extra pound to ensure they meet regulations... unfortunately they got caught, I am sure other teams are shiting their pants this week to ensure they also make weight because BAR is not the only team interpreting the rules to thier advantage.
-nate
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Re: BARF1 From classy to ashy (Chris N)
Ha, I was hoping you wouldn't bring up the brake duct issue. I agree and like I said the punishment is too harsh. Dave who will be wearing Williams and Renault gear at the USGP this year.
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Re: BARF1 From classy to ashy (Money Hou$e)
It is too bad that BarF is the one who being used as an example in this case. But I bet you won't see anyone stretch the rules anymore this year. And I think that is the point of this who situation.
-Nate (go BMW.Williams!! well go faster BMW.Williams actually)
-Nate (go BMW.Williams!! well go faster BMW.Williams actually)
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Re: BARF1 From classy to ashy (Nate)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nate »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know a lot of you guys are big BAR fans, but lets be honest. It is as simple as they did not make weight with all fluids drained. That's it, and all rules are slightly vague for the sole reason that the FIA can make final rulings on teams trying to stretch the rules, look at any other series and you will find the same.
And if you honestly think that a team will spend 50+ million a year on aero dynamics but they cannot make min weight or maybe have an extra pound to ensure they meet regulations... unfortunately they got caught, I am sure other teams are shiting their pants this week to ensure they also make weight because BAR is not the only team interpreting the rules to thier advantage.
-nate</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sure, we're BAR fans, but it's unfortunate that they got caught this way. Now, the other 9 teams have the opprtunity to remove their secret ballast tanks before getting caught.
And if you honestly think that a team will spend 50+ million a year on aero dynamics but they cannot make min weight or maybe have an extra pound to ensure they meet regulations... unfortunately they got caught, I am sure other teams are shiting their pants this week to ensure they also make weight because BAR is not the only team interpreting the rules to thier advantage.
-nate</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sure, we're BAR fans, but it's unfortunate that they got caught this way. Now, the other 9 teams have the opprtunity to remove their secret ballast tanks before getting caught.
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From: imma young chinese boy
Re: BARF1 From classy to ashy (Money Hou$e)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Money Hou$e »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes they weighed out legally after the race, the stipulation is they were weighed again with the fuel gone, however BAR did not remove it all(it has nothing to do with the "Secondary" fuel cell and it's legality). Yes the punishment does not fit the crime, but the crime is negligence and that's what the FIA ruled. </TD></TR></TABLE>
right the crime is negligence on the part of the FIA. they knew all about this 2 races ago and had no problem with it until after imola. and this is after their own delegates, the race stewards, declared the car "legal"
honda is getting **** on because of the fact that they are one of the 7 teams who are tired of FIA bullshit.
right the crime is negligence on the part of the FIA. they knew all about this 2 races ago and had no problem with it until after imola. and this is after their own delegates, the race stewards, declared the car "legal"
honda is getting **** on because of the fact that they are one of the 7 teams who are tired of FIA bullshit.
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Re: (RisforTypeR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RisforTypeR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't understand the FIA's motive in being hypocritical. Do they WANT Ferrari to win another Championship or something? </TD></TR></TABLE>
no. they want to intimidate the other 7 teams into signing up with them.
</TD></TR></TABLE>no. they want to intimidate the other 7 teams into signing up with them.
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Re: (lanceh)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lanceh »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no. they want to intimidate the other 7 teams into signing up with them.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's a rather stupid way of doing it. Embarass and **** off manufacturers so they'll want to stay with us? Come up with an arbitrary interpretation of some vague rule to accuse one of the best engine makers in the world of cheating? I can't see how this is going to make the other teams think that staying with FIA is a good idea. I certainly wouldn't want to stay with them after how poorly they handled this incident.
That's a rather stupid way of doing it. Embarass and **** off manufacturers so they'll want to stay with us? Come up with an arbitrary interpretation of some vague rule to accuse one of the best engine makers in the world of cheating? I can't see how this is going to make the other teams think that staying with FIA is a good idea. I certainly wouldn't want to stay with them after how poorly they handled this incident.
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Re: (JMU R1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JMU R1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's a rather stupid way of doing it. Embarass and **** off manufacturers so they'll want to stay with us? Come up with an arbitrary interpretation of some vague rule to accuse one of the best engine makers in the world of cheating? I can't see how this is going to make the other teams think that staying with FIA is a good idea. I certainly wouldn't want to stay with them after how poorly they handled this incident.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Maybe now that they're selling a pickup truck (and belt buckle) they'll go after the NASCAR crowd now.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Way to go and read up on the situation before passing judgement</TD></TR></TABLE>
Guilty.
-Chris
Maybe now that they're selling a pickup truck (and belt buckle) they'll go after the NASCAR crowd now.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Way to go and read up on the situation before passing judgement</TD></TR></TABLE>
Guilty.
-Chris
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Re: (RisforTypeR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RisforTypeR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't understand the FIA's motive in being hypocritical. Do they WANT Ferrari to win another Championship or something? </TD></TR></TABLE>
HUH?
Does that make sense?
I thought BAR along with Ferrari were the so-called rogue teams that did not want to follow the FIA. Why would the FIA help Ferrari and "****" on BAR?
</TD></TR></TABLE>HUH?
Does that make sense?
I thought BAR along with Ferrari were the so-called rogue teams that did not want to follow the FIA. Why would the FIA help Ferrari and "****" on BAR?
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Re: (ITRbroham)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITRbroham »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">HUH?
Does that make sense?
I thought BAR along with Ferrari were the so-called rogue teams that did not want to follow the FIA. Why would the FIA help Ferrari and "****" on BAR?</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, BARH is one of the GPWC teams, Ferrari is staying with FIA since FIA cut them a deal for a greater portion of the F1 profits.
Does that make sense?
I thought BAR along with Ferrari were the so-called rogue teams that did not want to follow the FIA. Why would the FIA help Ferrari and "****" on BAR?</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, BARH is one of the GPWC teams, Ferrari is staying with FIA since FIA cut them a deal for a greater portion of the F1 profits.
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Re: (JMU R1)
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