Roll center adjuster and trailing arm bush installed! *lotsa PICS!*
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From: Richmond, BC, Canada
Roll center adjuster and trailing arm bush installed! *lotsa PICS!*
April 23, 2005 - Friday
Prepping the car for upcoming track day on the 25th, at Pacific Raceway by Seattle. Installed the my recently arrived new toy, the J's Racing roll center adjuster, and the ALEX trailing arm bushing.
I didn't quite understand how the roll center adjuster worked in the beginning when I first saw it on the J's website, but after doing some research on it, it makes good sense to me so I decided to try it.. What it does is it re-adjusts the roll center of the car after a car's been lowered, resulting in better steering responses and higher conering forces. anyways, I'm not the best at explaining how it works.
So here's a few pics that I jacked from the J's site
Here are some pics:
Everybody, meet Koji (the mechanic, not the car)
Comparing the oem piece and the J's extended piece.
Koji again, fiddling with the car (you can see the angle of the lower control arm is increased)
Installed
Also, to show off my new jdm bling: T1R 70mm Prototype catback for DC2
And additionals to my cusco 'toy' cage.
Street Driving Impressions:
on the J's roll center adjuster:
It is noticeable that steering response has improved by a large amount, body roll is dramatically reduced on tight 90 degree turns on the street (this is driving at normal speed limit), driving feel is very solid.
on the ALEX trailing arm bush:
stability is increased around the turns, also. Power transition to the ground has also smoothened and increased by a noticeable amount. Overall it feels like a different car when you first jump in to drive it, in a good way.
Track driving impression:
Tested it at Pacific Raceway on monday the 25th. Turn in response is excellent, body roll is minimal with the J's RCA in. Stability in the turns as well is very impressive. The car felt very neutral (also testing out the T1R coilovers prototype at the moment). Definitely no complaints at all, I'd highly recommend these setups for any other track ****** out there.
For those who read all the way till down here, thanks for your attention.
- Justin
Prepping the car for upcoming track day on the 25th, at Pacific Raceway by Seattle. Installed the my recently arrived new toy, the J's Racing roll center adjuster, and the ALEX trailing arm bushing.
I didn't quite understand how the roll center adjuster worked in the beginning when I first saw it on the J's website, but after doing some research on it, it makes good sense to me so I decided to try it.. What it does is it re-adjusts the roll center of the car after a car's been lowered, resulting in better steering responses and higher conering forces. anyways, I'm not the best at explaining how it works.
So here's a few pics that I jacked from the J's site
Here are some pics:
Everybody, meet Koji (the mechanic, not the car)
Comparing the oem piece and the J's extended piece.
Koji again, fiddling with the car (you can see the angle of the lower control arm is increased)
Installed
Also, to show off my new jdm bling: T1R 70mm Prototype catback for DC2
And additionals to my cusco 'toy' cage.
Street Driving Impressions:
on the J's roll center adjuster:
It is noticeable that steering response has improved by a large amount, body roll is dramatically reduced on tight 90 degree turns on the street (this is driving at normal speed limit), driving feel is very solid.
on the ALEX trailing arm bush:
stability is increased around the turns, also. Power transition to the ground has also smoothened and increased by a noticeable amount. Overall it feels like a different car when you first jump in to drive it, in a good way.
Track driving impression:
Tested it at Pacific Raceway on monday the 25th. Turn in response is excellent, body roll is minimal with the J's RCA in. Stability in the turns as well is very impressive. The car felt very neutral (also testing out the T1R coilovers prototype at the moment). Definitely no complaints at all, I'd highly recommend these setups for any other track ****** out there.
For those who read all the way till down here, thanks for your attention.
- Justin
Re: Roll center adjuster and trailing arm bush installed! *lotsa PICS!* (MooFX)
Nice piece. How much is the RCA and this is front only, what do you do about rear? Just adjust ride height accordingly?
Pics of the Alex bushing?
Pics of the Alex bushing?
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From: Denver, CO, USA
Re: Roll center adjuster and trailing arm bush installed! *lotsa PICS!* (jdmspoonitr)
Interesting modification.
There was just a discussion about the J's Racing Roll Center Adjuster over in RR/AX: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1223084.
There was just a discussion about the J's Racing Roll Center Adjuster over in RR/AX: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1223084.
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From: Socal, CA
Re: Roll center adjuster and trailing arm bush installed! *lotsa PICS!* (Flux)
Now that the roll center has been raised relative to the car's center of gravity and roll has been reduced, the need for higher spring rates isn't needed anymore, correct? This probably would be better for a street car that doesn't have the same requirements as a dedicated race car.
About how low would a car need to be lowered to really affect the roll center?
About how low would a car need to be lowered to really affect the roll center?
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From: vancity
Re: (esponet)
Looking good. I'll have to come by the shop and check out your ride again. That cusco cage is so ballin'. Love the additions. Toy cage or not, it's tha bomb.
Thanx again for the tire recommendation.
Thanx again for the tire recommendation.
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From: Richmond, BC, Canada
Re: Roll center adjuster and trailing arm bush installed! *lotsa PICS!* (ITRbroham)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITRbroham »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now that the roll center has been raised relative to the car's center of gravity and roll has been reduced, the need for higher spring rates isn't needed anymore, correct? This probably would be better for a street car that doesn't have the same requirements as a dedicated race car.
About how low would a car need to be lowered to really affect the roll center? </TD></TR></TABLE>
That is correct, stiffer springs arn't required to reduce bodyroll with this piece installed. This is a very neat design for cars that see more time on the street than track. I'm only running 12k front and 8k rear on my T1R coilovers right now, set at 50% front and rear when I was at the track, it felt solid, and on the street, it is still very comfortable.
About how low would a car need to be lowered to really affect the roll center? </TD></TR></TABLE>
That is correct, stiffer springs arn't required to reduce bodyroll with this piece installed. This is a very neat design for cars that see more time on the street than track. I'm only running 12k front and 8k rear on my T1R coilovers right now, set at 50% front and rear when I was at the track, it felt solid, and on the street, it is still very comfortable.
Thread Starter
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From: Richmond, BC, Canada
Re: (esponet)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by esponet »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">interesting. i need to change my front lower ball joint anyways. so i might as well replace it with this.
how much and how long does it take to get to me???nor cal.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Please IM me with inquiries on prices and availability, for I want to keep this thread advertisement free.
Thanks,
Justin
how much and how long does it take to get to me???nor cal.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Please IM me with inquiries on prices and availability, for I want to keep this thread advertisement free.
Thanks,
Justin
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From: norcal/socal/central cal, Ca, usa
Re: Roll center adjuster and trailing arm bush installed! *lotsa PICS!* (ITRbroham)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITRbroham »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now that the roll center has been raised relative to the car's center of gravity and roll has been reduced, the need for higher spring rates isn't needed anymore, correct? This probably would be better for a street car that doesn't have the same requirements as a dedicated race car.
About how low would a car need to be lowered to really affect the roll center? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I would guess even an inch of lowering would increase roll by about 20%. I read a write up once where a guy actually measured where his roll center was in his m3 and did all the geometry. and a full race car(which he had) that was lowered like 3" had a increase in roll by like 60 percent.
Roll center if very sensitive becuase of the way the geometry works out. that is why it is so much better to raise the shock mounting points instead of just shortening the spring.
the roll of a car is induced by the torque created by the difference in the CG and the RC. that is why F1 cars have virutally no roll because the is negligable difference in their CG and RC.
any way I'm just blabbing
so moral of the story is get some ground control upper shock mounts and a roll center adjuster.
About how low would a car need to be lowered to really affect the roll center? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I would guess even an inch of lowering would increase roll by about 20%. I read a write up once where a guy actually measured where his roll center was in his m3 and did all the geometry. and a full race car(which he had) that was lowered like 3" had a increase in roll by like 60 percent.
Roll center if very sensitive becuase of the way the geometry works out. that is why it is so much better to raise the shock mounting points instead of just shortening the spring.
the roll of a car is induced by the torque created by the difference in the CG and the RC. that is why F1 cars have virutally no roll because the is negligable difference in their CG and RC.
any way I'm just blabbing
so moral of the story is get some ground control upper shock mounts and a roll center adjuster.
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From: The Mitten State..
Re: Roll center adjuster and trailing arm bush installed! *lotsa PICS!* (niterida)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by niterida »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
the roll of a car is induced by the torque created by the difference in the CG and the RC. that is why F1 cars have virutally no roll because the is negligable difference in their CG and RC.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
As your RC heights approaches your CG height a jacking effect is created. Yes there will be less to no roll at all, however it is not a desirable effect.. The RC height on your FSAE car last year was 2.4" front and 3.4" rear, with a CG height around 10".
RC heights are good to know, but RC migration is even more of importance. You may have a static RC height of 2" above ground, however it can mirgate below and create jacking force in a turn. The same thing happened with our FSAE car.
Its a interesting product, but with out any data to really back it up, I dont know.. Anyone want to CMM the front suspension and stick it in SusProg?
the roll of a car is induced by the torque created by the difference in the CG and the RC. that is why F1 cars have virutally no roll because the is negligable difference in their CG and RC.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
As your RC heights approaches your CG height a jacking effect is created. Yes there will be less to no roll at all, however it is not a desirable effect.. The RC height on your FSAE car last year was 2.4" front and 3.4" rear, with a CG height around 10".
RC heights are good to know, but RC migration is even more of importance. You may have a static RC height of 2" above ground, however it can mirgate below and create jacking force in a turn. The same thing happened with our FSAE car.
Its a interesting product, but with out any data to really back it up, I dont know.. Anyone want to CMM the front suspension and stick it in SusProg?
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From: bumper to bumper with AMERIE
Re: Roll center adjuster and trailing arm bush installed! *lotsa PICS!* (canuckr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by canuckr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As your RC heights approaches your CG height a jacking effect is created. Yes there will be less to no roll at all, however it is not a desirable effect.. The RC height on your FSAE car last year was 2.4" front and 3.4" rear, with a CG height around 10".
RC heights are good to know, but RC migration is even more of importance. You may have a static RC height of 2" above ground, however it can mirgate below and create jacking force in a turn. The same thing happened with our FSAE car.
Its a interesting product, but with out any data to really back it up, I dont know.. Anyone want to CMM the front suspension and stick it in SusProg?</TD></TR></TABLE>
ok, would you believe me if i said i understood every word?
in plain english please?
RC heights are good to know, but RC migration is even more of importance. You may have a static RC height of 2" above ground, however it can mirgate below and create jacking force in a turn. The same thing happened with our FSAE car.
Its a interesting product, but with out any data to really back it up, I dont know.. Anyone want to CMM the front suspension and stick it in SusProg?
</TD></TR></TABLE>ok, would you believe me if i said i understood every word?
in plain english please?
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Re: Roll center adjuster and trailing arm bush installed! *lotsa PICS!* (BlueR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok, would you believe me if i said i understood every word?
in plain english please? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I really think that some of the info in this thread is over-simplifying a great deal. This is hard stuff for the average enthusiast to grasp without some schooling in physics/etc, i don't think its nearly as simple as "less spring rate and better roll center = better car".
(re: what ryan wrote and us not understanding it) More reason for people to not jump in to this product without knowing what exactly they are getting.
refer to this thread for more info: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1223084
Modified by Chris N at 10:32 AM 4/28/2005
in plain english please?
</TD></TR></TABLE>I really think that some of the info in this thread is over-simplifying a great deal. This is hard stuff for the average enthusiast to grasp without some schooling in physics/etc, i don't think its nearly as simple as "less spring rate and better roll center = better car".
(re: what ryan wrote and us not understanding it) More reason for people to not jump in to this product without knowing what exactly they are getting.
refer to this thread for more info: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1223084
Modified by Chris N at 10:32 AM 4/28/2005
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From: Denver, CO, USA
Re: Roll center adjuster and trailing arm bush installed! *lotsa PICS!* (Chris N)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">refer to this thread for more info: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1223084</TD></TR></TABLE>
I just said that yo!
I just said that yo!
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From: Charlotte
Re: Roll center adjuster and trailing arm bush installed! *lotsa PICS!* (MooFX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MooFX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">trailing arm bush installed! *lotsa PICS!* </TD></TR></TABLE>
?
?
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From: Atlantis
Re: Roll center adjuster and trailing arm bush installed! *lotsa PICS!* (MooFX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MooFX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And additionals to my cusco 'toy' cage.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
What are these pieces?
And additionals to my cusco 'toy' cage.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
What are these pieces?
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From: Charlotte
Re: Roll center adjuster and trailing arm bush installed! *lotsa PICS!* (Black R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What are these pieces? </TD></TR></TABLE>
looks like a 2x4 to me.
looks like a 2x4 to me.
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From: Atlantis
Re: Roll center adjuster and trailing arm bush installed! *lotsa PICS!* (Willard)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
looks like a 2x4 to me.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, but it wasn't jdm cusco blue so I was confused.....
looks like a 2x4 to me.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Yeah, but it wasn't jdm cusco blue so I was confused.....
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From: The Dirty Hotness
Re: Roll center adjuster and trailing arm bush installed! *lotsa PICS!* (Black R)
I think some of the primary concerns raised would be the longevity of this product vs. stock.....
Albeit, if you are gonna be excercising your car regularly during HPDE/circuit races....then you have to expect "you gotta pay to play...."
Since the relationship with J's is well founded, it would be able to find out more information how the company came upon developing these piece in the dimensions they released it on.
I don't feel anybody is really debating whether or not they work.... I am a firm believer J's wouldn't put out a product like this without being responsible in their development....but even so...doesn't mean there aren't products out there that sucker you into buying them providing only negligable improvements.....
Good for you to expose our community to available options....
Albeit, if you are gonna be excercising your car regularly during HPDE/circuit races....then you have to expect "you gotta pay to play...."
Since the relationship with J's is well founded, it would be able to find out more information how the company came upon developing these piece in the dimensions they released it on.
I don't feel anybody is really debating whether or not they work.... I am a firm believer J's wouldn't put out a product like this without being responsible in their development....but even so...doesn't mean there aren't products out there that sucker you into buying them providing only negligable improvements.....
Good for you to expose our community to available options....
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From: Richmond, BC, Canada
Re: Roll center adjuster and trailing arm bush installed! *lotsa PICS!* (Black R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What are these pieces? </TD></TR></TABLE>
You must be taking about the cusco carbon fibre additional bars.
They're bought seperately from the cage.
- Justin
What are these pieces? </TD></TR></TABLE>
You must be taking about the cusco carbon fibre additional bars.
They're bought seperately from the cage.
- Justin