PE timing belt and portflow Ti retainers - for the third installment..... (after 20k miles)
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From: Atlantis
PE timing belt and portflow Ti retainers - for the third installment..... (after 20k miles)
Well I haven't driven my hatch in like a month because I've been thinking it's about time for me to change the timing belt (I like to change it every 15k miles or so).
This past weekend, I stopped by .RJ's to pick up a rollbar and help with his timing belt as it was slightly loose.
I was thinking I should check the tension on the one on my hatch as well - seeing as how it wasn't as tight as is used to be the last time I checked it..... So I removed the valve cover and upper timing belt cover and gave it a once-over.
Here's the pics (I haven't tensioned it since I installed it new 20k miles ago - zero deflection at that time). Look at it now:
And then I used the coathanger method shown to me by Willard and Jack:
tools of the trade (torque to 40ft/lb)
done
Ok, now I was going to do a valve lash adjustment but it was getting late so I decided to postpone. I gave the head a once-over and decided to look at the retainers as Jack had mentioned a while back to keep an eye on the Ti ones as they sometimes wear thin.....
Here's the pics - they didn't look thin, but they did look like little mice had been chewing the edges of about 8 of them:
Has anyone experienced anything like this before?
Things to be taken into account for this motor:
'00 usdm itr motor
all of the above miles have been on toda valvetrain, and toda spec B or spec C camshafts
rev limiter is set at 9500 although it has had a couple zings to 12k rpm...
These are fairly recent occurences for the retainers - within the last 5k miles or so (I will check my odo log book tomorrow)...
Thoughts?
I will email Tom Fujita and see what he says as well.
Modified by Black R at 3:48 AM 4/5/2005
This past weekend, I stopped by .RJ's to pick up a rollbar and help with his timing belt as it was slightly loose.
I was thinking I should check the tension on the one on my hatch as well - seeing as how it wasn't as tight as is used to be the last time I checked it..... So I removed the valve cover and upper timing belt cover and gave it a once-over.
Here's the pics (I haven't tensioned it since I installed it new 20k miles ago - zero deflection at that time). Look at it now:
And then I used the coathanger method shown to me by Willard and Jack:
tools of the trade (torque to 40ft/lb)
done
Ok, now I was going to do a valve lash adjustment but it was getting late so I decided to postpone. I gave the head a once-over and decided to look at the retainers as Jack had mentioned a while back to keep an eye on the Ti ones as they sometimes wear thin.....
Here's the pics - they didn't look thin, but they did look like little mice had been chewing the edges of about 8 of them:
Has anyone experienced anything like this before?
Things to be taken into account for this motor:
'00 usdm itr motor
all of the above miles have been on toda valvetrain, and toda spec B or spec C camshafts
rev limiter is set at 9500 although it has had a couple zings to 12k rpm...
These are fairly recent occurences for the retainers - within the last 5k miles or so (I will check my odo log book tomorrow)...
Thoughts?
I will email Tom Fujita and see what he says as well.
Modified by Black R at 3:48 AM 4/5/2005
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From: Richmond,, British Columbia, Canada
Re: PE timing belt and portflow Ti retainers - for the third installment..... (Bbasso)
your install height is a tad bit too high causing the rockers to smack into retainer in vtec
I'm also running toda C's
same thing happened to me
I'm also running toda C's
same thing happened to me
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From: Madison, WI, USA
Re: PE timing belt and portflow Ti retainers - for the third installment..... (Bbasso)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bbasso »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you don't mind explaining "the coathanger method" ...
I'd like to learn this one.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes please explain this "coat hanger method" I need to check the tension on my TB this week and would like to know if this "coat hanger method" will help me achieve proper tension.
BTW, how loud is your valve train with the Toda springs, Ti retainers and the Spec B’s?? Mine setup is the same but my valve train is very loud. Louder then all my friends with cams and stiffer springs…..I’m starting to wonder if my rocker arms are getting loose around the rocker shafts.
I'd like to learn this one.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Yes please explain this "coat hanger method" I need to check the tension on my TB this week and would like to know if this "coat hanger method" will help me achieve proper tension.
BTW, how loud is your valve train with the Toda springs, Ti retainers and the Spec B’s?? Mine setup is the same but my valve train is very loud. Louder then all my friends with cams and stiffer springs…..I’m starting to wonder if my rocker arms are getting loose around the rocker shafts.
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From: 626, CA
Re: PE timing belt and portflow Ti retainers - for the third installment..... (B18CXr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CXr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thoughts?
Yep, run stock retainers.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Dur... its not like you need the light weight benefits for your hairpin filled daily driving machine.
Yep, run stock retainers.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Dur... its not like you need the light weight benefits for your hairpin filled daily driving machine.
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I forgot more about hondas then you will ever know....
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: hop,skip, and a jump from the city,, new friggin york, USA
Re: PE timing belt and portflow Ti retainers - for the third installment..... (Bbasso)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bbasso »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you don't mind explaining "the coathanger method" ...
I'd like to learn this one. </TD></TR></TABLE>
it is an abortion procedure, i have done it plenty of times in the back of my suburban....
seriously though, it is a shortcut where you loop the end of a coathanger, and stick it down the front of the timing belt cover to manually pull up on the timing belt tensioner. personally, i prefer to spend a few extra minutes removing the crank pulley/t belt cover and pry on the tensioner directly.
*note i prefer the method in the first pic, as you are less likely to slip and stab something with the screwdriver
rob, you don;t need to do this, as you have a stock head/headgasket, so you can tension it via the helms procedure. this is only needed when you have a decked head/thinner headgasket as this effectively "lengthens" the timing belt. you then need to throw the factory procedure out the window.....
I'd like to learn this one.
</TD></TR></TABLE>it is an abortion procedure, i have done it plenty of times in the back of my suburban....
seriously though, it is a shortcut where you loop the end of a coathanger, and stick it down the front of the timing belt cover to manually pull up on the timing belt tensioner. personally, i prefer to spend a few extra minutes removing the crank pulley/t belt cover and pry on the tensioner directly.
*note i prefer the method in the first pic, as you are less likely to slip and stab something with the screwdriver
rob, you don;t need to do this, as you have a stock head/headgasket, so you can tension it via the helms procedure. this is only needed when you have a decked head/thinner headgasket as this effectively "lengthens" the timing belt. you then need to throw the factory procedure out the window.....
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From: NY, USA
Re: PE timing belt and portflow Ti retainers - for the third installment..... (137)
Yes, please share the coathanger method. My TB is about as loose as yours was in that 1st pic.
btw, cut that thumb nail!!
btw, cut that thumb nail!!
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From: atlanta, ga, usa
Re: PE timing belt and portflow Ti retainers - for the third installment..... (ebelp)
my motor jumped timing before and i did the coat hanger method too, its pretty easy. get the coat hanger and straighten it out with a little loop at the end, then u have to hook it onto the tension spring and pull it up then tighten the screw in the tension, be patient dont rush
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From: Hollywood Babylon
so THATS the coat hanger method. I went the long route to adjust my tensioner after some break in miles. Ill try the coat hanger method next time. '
Ken you always have some ridiculous thumb nails lol
Ken you always have some ridiculous thumb nails lol
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From: atlanta, ga, usa
Re: (ebelp)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ebelp »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So that definitely takes 2 people...</TD></TR></TABLE>
u can do it by yourself but 2 people wouldn't hurt
u can do it by yourself but 2 people wouldn't hurt
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From: Pegging the bling meter
Re: (JamaicanDM)
I'd say those retainers were due for replacement. I have seen Jun retainers paper thin. Personally, on a motor with stock redline, I'd just run stock retainers. Its not worth the aggravation to to swapping the Titanium retainers so often and they are a wear item!
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From: Atlantis
Re: (canuck-mx6)
I don't want to go back to stock retainers. It has been suggested to me that had I been running stock retainers, they would have cracked and broken whereas these have merely chipped.
I just don't trust stock retainers to 10k+ rpm reliably.
I know plenty of people who have broken stock retainers and it just isn't pretty.
I need a retainer that I feel will not fail under any circumstances.
If I need to cryo/ nitride/ treat, etc; I have no problem in doing so.
Here's what Tom Fujita has emailed me:
"--- info <info@portflow.com> wrote:
> looks like the rocker is hitting the retainer
> any mods done to the lost motion ?
> i have seen a customer that had H22 lost motion assy.
> and was hitting the retainer just like that
> or
> this seems to happen when the engine is at high RPM
> and the vtec is not working correctly
> only need to happen once
>
>
> "
I just don't trust stock retainers to 10k+ rpm reliably.
I know plenty of people who have broken stock retainers and it just isn't pretty.
I need a retainer that I feel will not fail under any circumstances.
If I need to cryo/ nitride/ treat, etc; I have no problem in doing so.
Here's what Tom Fujita has emailed me:
"--- info <info@portflow.com> wrote:
> looks like the rocker is hitting the retainer
> any mods done to the lost motion ?
> i have seen a customer that had H22 lost motion assy.
> and was hitting the retainer just like that
> or
> this seems to happen when the engine is at high RPM
> and the vtec is not working correctly
> only need to happen once
>
>
> "
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From: bumper to bumper with AMERIE
Re: (Black R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If I need to cryo/ nitride/ treat, etc; I have no problem in doing so.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i just got a set these for myself:
http://www.passwordjdm.com/pro...D=308
If I need to cryo/ nitride/ treat, etc; I have no problem in doing so.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i just got a set these for myself:
http://www.passwordjdm.com/pro...D=308
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From: Charlotte
Re: PE timing belt and portflow Ti retainers - for the third installment..... (JamaicanDM)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JamaicanDM »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">then u have to hook it onto the tension spring and pull it up then tighten the screw in the tension</TD></TR></TABLE>
don't pull hard on the spring... it will come off. hook onto the tensioner arm and pull up from there.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ebelp »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So that definitely takes 2 people...</TD></TR></TABLE>
nope.. I have done 'several' tensions all by myself.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know plenty of people who have broken stock retainers and it just isn't pretty.</TD></TR></TABLE>
who? and how was the failure mode? I can bet it was not from 'wear'.
TI = wear item... replace ever 10,000-15,000 miles or so to be safe.
don't pull hard on the spring... it will come off. hook onto the tensioner arm and pull up from there.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ebelp »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So that definitely takes 2 people...</TD></TR></TABLE>
nope.. I have done 'several' tensions all by myself.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know plenty of people who have broken stock retainers and it just isn't pretty.</TD></TR></TABLE>
who? and how was the failure mode? I can bet it was not from 'wear'.
TI = wear item... replace ever 10,000-15,000 miles or so to be safe.
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From: bumper to bumper with AMERIE
Re: PE timing belt and portflow Ti retainers - for the third installment..... (Willard)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">TI = wear item... replace ever 10,000-15,000 miles or so to be safe.</TD></TR></TABLE>
when i pulled my portflow ti retainers with about 10,000 miles on them, they had worn to about half the original height
when i pulled my portflow ti retainers with about 10,000 miles on them, they had worn to about half the original height
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From: bumper to bumper with AMERIE
Re: PE timing belt and portflow Ti retainers - for the third installment..... (Willard)
tell jack he put in the wrong retainers, they are too small for the valvesprings... lol
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From: Jasma
Re: PE timing belt and portflow Ti retainers - for the third installment..... (BlueR)
I'm really curious how durable the coating is on the retainers that Marc bought...keep us posted markymark!
I checked my retainers recently and they still looked good (no clearance issues and no galling yet) then again the engine hasn't seen many miles last season. (or this for that matter)
I checked my retainers recently and they still looked good (no clearance issues and no galling yet) then again the engine hasn't seen many miles last season. (or this for that matter)
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From: Atlanta, GA
Re: PE timing belt and portflow Ti retainers - for the third installment..... (Black R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
</TD></TR></TABLE>
IC Ken has still yet to discover a set of good nail clippers =P
</TD></TR></TABLE>
IC Ken has still yet to discover a set of good nail clippers =P
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From: bumper to bumper with AMERIE
Re: PE timing belt and portflow Ti retainers - for the third installment..... (El Pollo Diablo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm really curious how durable the coating is on the retainers that Marc bought...keep us posted markymark!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
sure, use me as the guinea pig...so i can blow another motor
</TD></TR></TABLE>
sure, use me as the guinea pig...so i can blow another motor