I was reading an article about a STS remote mount Turbo kit,on a Type R it was interesting, only thing that i don't get is how you stop the turbo lag. and how do you lub. the turbo.

Taking all comments, and opinions

 

not this again

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by only1crx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was reading an article about a STS remote mount Turbo kit,on a Type R it was interesting, only thing that i don't get is how you stop the turbo lag. and how do you lub. the turbo.

Taking all comments, and opinions </TD></TR></TABLE>


I can tell you how to stop the lag and lub the turbo,buy a real turbo kit.

 

ive actually installed these kits here locally, we got em on two trans ams and one 02 tahoe. http://www.canadianhighperformance.ca im currently building up my civic as a project car to get STS there first civic kit prepped up. on our trans ams there is virtually no lag, full boost by 2800 rpm.

on the integra kit, they got full boost by 3800 rpm. the difference in lag, compared to a front mount kit, is maybe half a second, but if you have a manual car, the lag is virtually eliminated by downshifting while on a roll. its all about loading the motor.

when my car is completed ill be sure to post up pics, and HP ratings, my goal is 300 at the wheels on a sohc mini me.

the turbo lag is taken care of by garret, the turbos were built by garret specifically for remote mounting.

lubrication is taken care of by the motor and a remote oil pump. the motor pressurizes the turbo, the remote oil pump sucks the oil out and back to the motor.

theve been at sema the last two years and won an award from GM. the system is legit. has some benifits over a front mount, which is one of the reasons im gonna go with it. some of which include, no need for a manifold, you can use stock exhaust. no ac clearance worries. no clearance issues for the rad. no heat soak to the rad. no added wieght to the front of the car, better weight dist. lower under hood heat temp compared to a front mount kit. if you swap motors you wont need a new manifold.

if you want more info heres there site, http://www.ststurbo.com

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dragline &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


I can tell you how to stop the lag and lub the turbo,buy a real turbo kit. </TD></TR></TABLE>

just throw in a humping V8.

can you see the resemblance, if all of us where afraid to try something new with a good principe we would'nt make any progress. actually this made me think of something brutal, muahahahaha

 

im sorry, but this is my opinion..hahahahahahahahahahahaha
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHha. aaaaahaa

Lag would be greatly incresed, specially for our low displacement motors..
doesnt anybody see a problem with road grime/ crap/ water/ rocks, etc?
intercooler?
extra oil pumps and such..

turbos specifically for remote mounting hugh?
care to get technical?

what about cats/ mufflers? all before the turbo?
exhaust heat in regards of turbo spooling?

i really dont see any pros. in using a remote mount kit.
Unless space is a problem.
Does this kit come with tornado spinaz? if so im all over it.

edit: i just thought up some more stuff to ask.

 

I don't think you need a muffler with this system 93formual if you can take pictures throughout your install I was looking at this system also it'll be good to find out what it does on a sohc and how the install is.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmuller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im sorry, but this is my opinion..hahahahahahahahahahahaha
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHha. aaaaahaa

Lag would be greatly incresed, specially for our low displacement motors..
doesnt anybody see a problem with road grime/ crap/ water/ rocks, etc?
intercooler?
extra oil pumps and such..

turbos specifically for remote mounting hugh?
care to get technical?

what about cats/ mufflers? all before the turbo?
exhaust heat in regards of turbo spooling?

i really dont see any pros. in using a remote mount kit.
Unless space is a problem.
Does this kit come with tornado spinaz? if so im all over it.

edit: i just thought up some more stuff to ask.</TD></TR></TABLE>

so far on the integra kits, the lag is the same as if it were a front mount kit.

for technicalities you will gave to ask STS themselve, but as far as i know the AR ratios and housings are done by garret for remote mounting and sized to the HP requirements of the customer.

intercooler can go where you normally have it for a front mount kit.

as for road grime, there is none. we have them here on three vehicles, two of which are daily drivers and drive thru the rain and snow of our winter. no problems.

cats go before the turbo, all of the kits locally use stock manifolds, stock cats, stock exhaust piping before the turbo. the 99 Trans am is using stock manifolds, stock cats, and at 9 psi with methanol injection is close to 500rwhp.

if the customer likes they can use test pipes instead of cats.

again the turbo lag has been beaten to death on the f body forums, there is no more lag then a traditional front mount kit. and for most people they wont believe it unless they see it for themselves. i suggest you attend next years sema show and see for your self. theres a reason it won the sema GM award.

the kits have been in many magazines and also on TV, see on there website for your self http://www.ststurbo.com

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by extra cam needed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't think you need a muffler with this system 93formual if you can take pictures throughout your install I was looking at this system also it'll be good to find out what it does on a sohc and how the install is.</TD></TR></TABLE>

no no muffler is needed. all the kits drop the muffler. ill try and take pics of the install, most likely will be done in utah at STS. id like them to get a jig made up so we can sell more of the EF civic kits.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93formula &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so far on the integra kits, the lag is the same as if it were a front mount kit.

intercooler can go where you normally have it for a front mount kit.

as for road grime, there is none. we have them here on three vehicles, two of which are daily drivers and drive thru the rain and snow of our winter. no problems.

cats go before the turbo, all of the kits locally use stock manifolds, stock cats, stock exhaust piping before the turbo. the 99 Trans am is using stock manifolds, stock cats, and at 9 psi with methanol injection is close to 500rwhp.

if the customer likes they can use test pipes instead of cats.

again the turbo lag has been beaten to death on the f body forums, there is no more lag then a traditional front mount kit. and for most people they wont believe it unless they see it for themselves. i suggest you attend next years sema show and see for your self. theres a reason it won the sema GM award.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I see, so there is no pressure loss in running the intake piping all the way to the intercooler and back to the TB?or should i say throttle response?
Please explain how lag and power output of the turbo is not affected by using exhaust gasses after it goes through resonators/cats/ etc.; and has lost velocity and temperature?
Regarding road grime...well that's really your opinion and experience, you cant say there are no problems since its obviously out in the open. You could fabricate some kind of shield, but..
If there is something im missing please school me, preferably with facts. After all you are presenting and defending a product, you should know facts.

After all that how is this kit more appropriate/ more convenient than a ''regular turbo kit''?Innovative? yes. convenient? mmmm

i mean you have to run:
-oil lines back and forth along with installation of the auxiliary pump
-charge pipes and lots of them
-to be safe you do have to fabricate some kind of shield to cover the turbo..no speculation here.
-what if you want your turbo to be more reliable and want to also use coolant as cooler? mmmm kinda hard or more lines and pumps.....

Im in no way bashing on the product; im just after the truth.
There should be a comparison using the same turbo specs in both setups to see how they perform.

 

again on our domestic vehicle we have doen there is no loss of throttle response. the integra car in utah i havent seen personally, but a collegue went to STS recently to get the avalanche kit mocked up. hes seen the integra kit, belongs to one of the workers there, claims to make 600 hp on a built b series. again i have no proof of the integra numbers other then the claims, thats why im building a honda myself.

http://www.ststurbo.com/magazine_articles check the articles for yourself.

im not to high up on my technical jargon with the exhaust flows, but this i know for sure that the turbo is not affected from being in the back when concerns of lag and turbo output come up.

but this article will explain it all to you

http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/f/Press/STS_THP.pdf

rather then typing it all out myself. just read it.

i can say there is no problems with the turbo out in the open, that is where it is under your hood is it not? why not build a cover for your muffler, LOL.

im not presenting this product yet, im building the honda kit, then i will present it when its done. im defending it because it works, and i sell them locally.

how is this kit more appropriate/ more convenient than a ''regular turbo kit''? well can you install a front mount kit in less then 6 hours???

 

http://www.ststurbo.com/acura___honda

the integra kit

 

well, i just read the ''tech'' article and well it does say that the whole straight pipe HELPS negate the effects of more lag.
Now grab the same turbo and try the remote location and a properly designed manifold. then tell me which one spools faster..
Besides the piping and temperature variables; your saying that cats/resonators will not affect spool times?

Once again, this might be a good option for space laking cars like f- bodies and most v8 engine compartments out there.
But for our cars its not the Better option. period.
you say 'it spools fine' well its going to work, but not as good as a properly designed turbo manifold.
with conditions allowing you could make lets say 600whp on on both turbo kits; you might have to run more boost on one and less on the other, numbers dont mean much.
We are talking efficiency here.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93formula &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i can say there is no problems with the turbo out in the open, that is where it is under your hood is it not? why not build a cover for your muffler, LOL.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

i hope you kidding..
yeah when the turbo is under the hood is pretty much away from hazardous materials that could hurt the turbo.
the turbo sits pretty much BEHIND the rear wheel..

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93formula &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
how is this kit more appropriate/ more convenient than a ''regular turbo kit''? well can you install a front mount kit in less then 6 hours??? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I dont think i quite follow you here; so your saying that its more appropriate because installation is faster?

 

one thing i will agree with you here is that the front mount is more "effiecient". but that being said i think there are pros with using a remote mount kit.

if your worried about spool times, the LS1 TA we did a kit on uses four cats, is an auto with stock convertor and still spools up below 3k rpm, in fact its faster then his brother 02 z06.

on the other LS1 TA, manual, the spool up was below 2800 rpm.

on the tahoe, which is quite longer then a civic, full boost below 3k.

STS has done trucks, twice as long as some civics, requiring more piping, and still no comlaints about spool up time.

the pros i see are that one doesn have to buy a specific manifold for a specific turbo.

there are no clearance issues with the radiator. ive seen some EFs switch to a smaller radiator, with this type of sytem you dont have to.

no heat transfer between the turbo and radiator.

you dont have to worry about ditching the windshield washer resivoir.

lower under hood temps.

the kit is getting a carb number and will be california emmisions legal. also emissions legal because you can retain the cat. one can also run a off road pipe.

if motor is swaped out you dont have to worry about another turbo manifold or any further clearance issues.

again there have been no issues whatsoever with the turbo sitting in the back. these sytems have been running over two years now. one of the kits locally, on the TA is lowered with suspension technique springs, no issues whatsoever with clearance, and any type of debris or damage. if one wishes then go ahead and build yourself a cover. but again you wouldnt do that for a muffler. how many damaged mufflers do you see everyday??

it may not be appropiate in your eyes, but it sure is more convienient. you can install in less then six hours, if needed removed in less then two.

again this is obviously not everyones cup of tea, nor is this the end all and be all of turbo systems. this is an alternative, and a good one at that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmuller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im sorry, but this is my opinion..hahahahahahahahahahahaha
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHha. aaaaahaa</TD></TR></TABLE>Oh, c'mon. This one's not NEARLY as funny as the little electric fans for the intake duct.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93formula &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if your worried about spool times, the LS1 TA we did a kit on uses four cats, is an auto with stock convertor and still spools up below 3k rpm, in fact its faster then his brother 02 z06.

on the other LS1 TA, manual, the spool up was below 2800 rpm.

on the tahoe, which is quite longer then a civic, full boost below 3k.</TD></TR></TABLE>During a long pull from lower RPMs, or during a steady pull uphill or something like that, it's a steady- or quasi-steady-state condition. Saying that you get boost at low RPM doesn't mean anything. That's not what turbo-lag is about. Your explanation has no times stated. I'd like to see something like this:
Driving steady in 5th gear at 2800 rpm, suddenly mash the gas pedal.
How long before boost comes up?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93formula &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the kit is getting a carb number and will be california emmisions legal. also emissions legal because you can retain the cat. one can also run a off road pipe.</TD></TR></TABLE>The regulatory issues are outside my area of expertise, but I understand the technical side of this stuff. And there's a couple issues that I haven't seen addressed.

In order to make say 8psi of boost, the exhaust pressure upstream of the turbine would generally be somewhere above 8psi. Maybe 12psi or something like that? Exhaust system & cats aren't designed for that kind of internal pressure. But containing the pressure isn't really the issue.

The exhaust density will be much higher than the catalyst was designed for. Will the perforations in the monolith have to be made smaller, in order to allow the catalysis to take place for all the air? Obviously, if it doesn't work, it won't pass the C.A.R.B. certification & you'll know soon enough (or know already?).

Another issue is with an exhaust leak, and I don't know what regulations are involved here. In a normal exhaust system the internal pressure is pretty low. When there's a leak, the lowest resistance is STILL out thru the tailpipe. So the flow rate through the leak is relatively small. It makes a lot of noise, but for safety (asphyxiation) the flow is still small. With most of the exhaust system operating at elevated pressure, that's no longer true.



Modified by JimBlake at 8:11 AM 4/14/2005

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1210330

...It's an thread of a 2nd gen integra and how his remote turboed engine performed at the track. He has a dyno sheet of his car putting out 267whp on 6psi and no intercooler.

He has all the pros from using the remote mount turbo over a front mount.

The only reason i'm drawn to this kit is because there has been a lot of testamonies that the set up increases gas milage a little bit and because the engine looks pretty much stock except for a pipe running to the throttle boddy, which you can argue to the cops is a cold air intake. But then i'm just not someone trying to make insane horsepower numbers, i just want a quick daily driver that will be conservative with gas with the increase in power.

I am skeptical on how the turbo's reliablility is being that it is exposed to the outside surroundings. That's the only reason why i haven't jumped on it yet.


EDIT: Typos


Modified by Freshazzburu at 12:36 PM 4/14/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Freshazzburu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1210330

...It's an thread of a 2nd gen integra and how his remote turboed engine performed at the track. He has a dyno sheet of his car putting out 267whp on 6psi and no intercooler.

He has all the pros from using the remote mount turbo over a front mount.

The only reason i'm drawn to this kit is because there has been a lot of testamonies that the set up increases gas milage a little bit and because the engine looks pretty much stock except for a pipe running to the throttle boddy, which you can argue to the cops is a cold air intake. But then i'm just not someone trying to make insane horsepower numbers, i just want a quick daily driver that will be conservative with gas with the increase in power.

I am skeptical on how the turbo's reliablility is being that it is exposed to the outside surroundings. That's the only reason why i haven't jumped on it yet.


EDIT: Typos


Modified by Freshazzburu at 12:36 PM 4/14/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

for gas milage i can tell you it does go up, we have a kit installed on a 2002 Chev 1500HD Crewcab Shortbox 6.0L averaged 27.2 mpg - tested and verified, after his STS kit was installed. the owner claims it went up by 7mpg.

as far as reliability goes, weve had a kit on a 2002 trans am for nearly a year who daily drives and as had NO issues whatsoever. also on a 2002 tahoe, daily driven, no issues.

 

jimblake, okay i understand what you mean by turbo lag, unfortunatly i dont know, havent tested it. well im sure its been tested by the owners, just not documented. but i do know if there was an issue i would have been notified by now, the kits we have the cars on have fussy owners.

i will look into that a bit more, but im sure STS will know more on this subject. or if your more concerned on how it will affect on a honda i suggest you IM the owner of the integra in the link above.

as far as cats are concerned again we have had no problems, so far all of the local cars are running with cats. the 99 TA is using four cats, 8-9 psi with methanol thru the cats. again the biggest concern here for our owners was the ability to pass emissions.

 

looks like the wastegate is about to be ripped off by the tire.