Here are some pictures from the world challenge race last friday. Sorry about the poor camera and angles, but it's the best I could do. I have more pictures from the race (particularly suspension shots from the other front drivers) as well as the hi-res originals if anyone wants them.

 

Amazed at all the customization on the bottom of those cars

good pics

 

3,000lbs in the rear, just like my street car

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecvoodoo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3,000lbs in the rear, just like my street car </TD></TR></TABLE>

That must be on the RSX, no?

 

Kind of off topic, but why the switch to what looks like CP-035's on the TSX?

 

Yah

I can`t remember what they run on the TSX.

 

detailed shots underneath the cars--it's a whole other world under those machines

 

ot: I just received my motor from RTR. I had them build a copy of their K20 for my street car. They seriously kick ***

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecvoodoo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ot: I just received my motor from RTR. I had them build a copy of their K20 for my street car. They seriously kick *** </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm sure that was a bargain!! Probably cost more than my whole track car.

 

nice pics. i like what rtr is doing with the rear suspsnsions
anyone know if the new york world challange bmw team got the car back together in time?

 

Very cool pics. Helps to further my lust for the TSX.

I'm sure it's been discussed here before, but I haven't see it--What setup does RTR use to make the RSX front suspension work? With all the complaints about Mac strut inferiority, I'm curious as to how they pull it off. Tons of custom fabbing?

 

Looks like RealTime finally got sick of bending SSR Comps and switched to Enkei RPF1s for the CL9.

New paint scheme looks good.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gamby &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm sure it's been discussed here before, but I haven't see it--What setup does RTR use to make the RSX front suspension work? With all the complaints about Mac strut inferiority, I'm curious as to how they pull it off. Tons of custom fabbing?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually, nothing too crazy appeared to be going on up there. I think they ended up running a lot of front roll stiffness (more so than a double a-arm suspension) to minimize roll because of the lack of camber change of a strut. It appeared that the front springs reached into quadruple digits, and thus they needed 3000# rear springs w/ a huge anti-roll bar to get the balance back.

 

3000 lb springs? WTF .

Man, they should just weld the rear suspension up solid!

 

thanks for the pics, first time in 5 years i have not gone to the race.


Going to Road America in August!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Smurf BNMS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
thus they needed 3000# rear springs w/ a huge anti-roll bar to get the balance back.</TD></TR></TABLE>

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought someone was just joking about that ridiculous rate!!!!

 

Sorry to bust your bubble but read this:
http://www.world-challenge.com/news/05press18.html

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gamby &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm sure it's been discussed here before, but I haven't see it--What setup does RTR use to make the RSX front suspension work? With all the complaints about Mac strut inferiority, I'm curious as to how they pull it off. Tons of custom fabbing?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think all of that is just marketing hype. If McP's were so bad would BMW and Porsche still use them? I've seen mini's that handle pretty damn well with minor mods, guess what front suspension they use?

 

It's not marketing hype if Honda messed up the design. BMW's may work well, but they've been doing it for a while and it obviously works for them. If RTR is having to weld the front ends of the RSX's together to get the things to handle, it sounds to me like Honda got it wrong (for competition). I think it feels fine on the street cars with the new suspension I've driven.

Pre-haps somebody who's honduh-challenging one of those chassis can chime in with any problems/awesomeness they've had when dealing with lowering and stiffening them for racing. We're getting a lot of "RTR does this and this!" but I don't really remember ever having heard about what works and what doesn't from our fellow H-Ters who actually have the cars.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonsense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think all of that is just marketing hype. If McP's were so bad would BMW and Porsche still use them? I've seen mini's that handle pretty damn well with minor mods, guess what front suspension they use? </TD></TR></TABLE>

As the owner of two strut cars (SE-R and BMW 325), they are VERY different in design. When the Nissan was stock, it would tear up the outside shoulder of the front tires in no time flat(often &lt;5,000 mi). The BMW (still stock) doesn't even roll the tire past the max rollover arrow thingy. The BMW handled MUCH better stock than the Nissan.

As you look at the individual designs, you can begin to see why... the steering inclination angle is much greater in the BMW, which actually allows camber GAIN under bump. This is something that you can't take advantage of in a FWD car (due to space concerns, and axle longevity). The caster is quite different between the two cars as well.

Minis absolutely destroy the outside shoulder of both of their front tires.... so they have the same problem the Nissan does.

Point is, you can't compare RWD strut designs with ANY FWD strut designs... and there are even great differences in the FWD strut design that make a world of difference. There is no question that the wishbone is better in every way except cost and space concerns. Honda CAN improve their strut design but it never equal their wishbone designs while the cars are still FWD.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecjj &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry to bust your bubble but read this:
http://www.world-challenge.com/news/05press18.html</TD></TR></TABLE>

W00t!

Ain't bustin my bubble. I am pumped! I really enjoyed watching the Champ cars race there last year, and I can't wait to see the TC cars!

Come to this race - Cleveland's got a lot more going on than Road America anyways

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonsense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think all of that is just marketing hype. If McP's were so bad would BMW and Porsche still use them? I've seen mini's that handle pretty damn well with minor mods, guess what front suspension they use? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Remember, BMW's and P cars are both RWD in race trim. That makes a HUGE difference and an unfair comparison. Mini's do handle well but I really have no comparison of them to the honda designs. I haven't seen either up close.

s

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecvoodoo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3,000lbs in the rear, just like my street car </TD></TR></TABLE>

Anyone know what the motion ratio is on that suspension? Also, what's the car weight?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's not marketing hype if Honda messed up the design. BMW's may work well, but they've been doing it for a while and it obviously works for them. If RTR is having to weld the front ends of the RSX's together to get the things to handle, it sounds to me like Honda got it wrong (for competition). I think it feels fine on the street cars with the new suspension I've driven. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well I'm mostly referring to the fact that Honda marketed it's double wishbone susp. in the old days so well that all Honda fans think that it's the greatest thing out there and that the mention of McPs on a Honda means it's inferior.

My point about the Porsche and BMW comparison was that it's not McP's that suck, it's sh*tty design that sucks. You can poorly design a double wishbone or a McP, and you can properly design either as well. Lately Honda is more into selling cars than designing good cars, so it's no surprise that they got it wrong on the RSX.

 

You guys think THAT's something - go find a copy of the latest Autosport and look for the Aussie Touring Cars - there's a Holden whatever shot at mid turn with what looks like -8 degrees camber on the outside wheel, and at least -16 on the inside - on rubber bands - and no curbing in sight on what looks like a smooth corner.

Scott, who, along with many of us, saw those rates on the back of the RSX two years ago...to understand them joo probably wanna know at least as much about the front end as the rear end...or, if you don't own an RSX, joo Don't need to know and should consider joorself lucky.