Thinking about wrapping my TODA Header, Anyone else wrap there header have any problems

 

you might need more than one roll, have you worked with fiber glass? if not have fun

 

I have a JDM ITR Header wrapped it was fun, The Toda is really thinned walled just wanted to see if anyone has done it.

Thanks for the reply

 

the toda isn't thin wall. it's good gauge steel... thicker than the DC 4-1 for sure.
why would you wrap that thing up? it's too pretty.

 

Only way they keep the nice finish is to keep it in the bag and never use it, The only one that looks good is billy's he never drives the white car

 

The header won't last very long with wrap on it.The wrap will trap moisture against the header if it gets wet.It also insulates the header from cooling off which is good for power but hard on the metal.Jet hot or similar coatings do a better job.
Glenn

 

Thanks for the info I don't plan on getting the header Wet at least I hope not, but when you say it won't last long how long will it last

 

I had header wrap on my DC for over 2yrs now and no affect so far that I can see.
I would recommend jet coating though. It is not that expensive, looks better and you dont have to worry about it long run.

 

from what i have herd, it traps the heat inside and does not allow it to be dispersed to the outer sections of the header, thus creating less engine bay temp. but it will increase the overall inside temp to possibly temps that the header was not made for. so over a long period of time and exposer to the higher temps you could see damage.

Im not sure about it trapping water though...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NJIN BUILDR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The wrap will trap moisture against the header if it gets wet.It also insulates the header from cooling off which is good for power but hard on the metal.Jet hot or similar coatings do a better job.
Glenn</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is good information and advice. If you're concerned about performance and/or reducing under-hood temperatures, get the piece properly coated, otherwise leave it bare.

 

I know a few people that have their header wrapped for years. Never heard any horror stories.

If it was an ebay header you might have problems, lol.

 

Wrapping the header will result in better exhaust flow. Which will make your car run lean. Make sure you compensate for it or you'll damage things. We wrap race car headers for the extra power.

 

i always see people posting about the moisture issue when wrapping their header. doesnt the heat of the header dry everything every time the motor is run???? i havent dealt with a wrapped header before, so maybe somebody could shed some more light on the topic.

 

wrap will help turn your header into crap a lot faster then usual.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITRacer121 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I had header wrap on my DC for over 2yrs now and no affect so far that I can see.
I would recommend jet coating though. It is not that expensive, looks better and you dont have to worry about it long run.</TD></TR></TABLE>

For over 3 years w/o any problems!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JoeB18R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wrap will help turn your header into crap a lot faster then usual.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Indeed. There is a reason why most commercial header manufacturers will not honor the header's warranty if it has been wrapped, and why some of the best custom header builders recommend against it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cpforyou &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For over 3 years w/o any problems! </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Strange reason to bump this, but I'd like to see one of the custom header guys actually reply in here....

SMSP?
RMF?

Anyone?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondatech176 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wrapping the header will result in better exhaust flow. Which will make your car run lean. Make sure you compensate for it or you'll damage things. We wrap race car headers for the extra power.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What?? Make it run lean? how so?

 

I would get the inside thermal coated. That way you keep the Toda bling with benefits similar to the wrap.

 

Taken from, 'All About Header Wraps' on Centuryperformance.com

http://www.centuryperformance.com/heatwraps.asp

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
THE FACTS:

Header wraps are designed to keep the heat in the header to improve scavenging of the cylinders. Keeping the heat in the header allows the exhaust speed to remain high. (the right idea)
There are no header manufacturers that I know of that will warranty their headers if any header wraps are installed on their products.
In most cases the header wrap damages the headers beyond repair. (I will explain below)
If you run a lean mixture, you "may" see a slim performance gain using header wraps. A rich mixture may show slim to absolutely NO gain in performance.
If you do not mind replacing your headers and header gaskets regularly, and you like that ugly look of a wrapped header, go ahead and use the heat wrap.

BACKGROUND INFORMATION:

In the past, almost all NASCAR and other racing engine builders used the header wraps for the added power gains. But, after having to replace the headers after each race due to the wrap being about the only thing holding the header together, they do not promote the practice any longer! They now utilize the thermal coatings that are chemically and electrically applied to the headers. Those include Airborn, Jet Hot, HPC, and others.

Imagine having to replace a $1200.00 plus set of headers after each race weekend! Few but the most financially well-off race teams can afford to do this. But, it is also in the downtime for remaking a custom set of headers. Most custom header makers do not have copies readily available.

I believe that the wraps are good to protect various items from heat, but not to hold the heat in the header. For example: you can use the wrapping for the protection of fuel and oil lines, wiring, etc.

Cool air needs to be around the header, and insulating it with a wrap to hold exhaust heat in makes the header material temperatures near molten. When you wrap the header you trap the heat in the header, but also in the material that needs to breathe to dissipate heat for it's own survival.

Engineers, Metallurgists, and other experts out there will state that there is no way that the material can fail because it can withstand, and it was designed to withstand, the internal temperatures of exhaust gases. TRUE! But, when the header is not allowed to cool so as to dissipate those extreme temperatures that the wrap is controlling, you have now developed a heat absorption that compares to thermal friction which will will continue to gain in temperature beyond the normal exhaust gas temperatures (EGT's). This is the same as with most any insulation.

Try this experiment ... launder a load of bath towels and then dry them. Immediately pull them out of the dryer and just toss them in a snug pile on your bed. Now leave them there for a day and then open them. You will find that there is still a considerable amount of heat left in the center towels. This heat, even though the outer towels and bed are normal room temperature have been able to contain their heat. This is a simple thermal insulation test, but with your headers you have an internal heat supply coming from the engine. The heat on the outside portion of the header material is trapped between the warp and the header and will continue to fatigue the header. This build of heat is amplified by the wrap. Towels do not need to breathe, header material does.

The EGTs stay the same but the properties of the header material changes in a way of amplifying the temperatures because of the insulation. This action goes against normal laws of thermal dynamics, but this effect is fact, and you have to pull the ears off most engineers before they believe you. This is the trouble with plenty of education, but NO "common sense"!

</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

&gt;&gt;&gt;
If you do not mind replacing your headers and header gaskets regularly, and you like that ugly look of a wrapped header, go ahead and use the heat wrap.
&lt;&lt;&lt;

I see nothing but negative posts about the stuff but never any proof. Nothing but heresay... However, there are plenty of people (like myself) who have used the stuff for 50,000+ miles with never a lick of trouble.

If header wrap is so bad, then how about somebody posting a pic of a header "ruined" by it? Sitting in a snow bank or a mud hole for several months is an automatic disqualifier. And a few smudges from where the wrap dulled the finish certainly does not qualify either. If header manufacturers want to go so far as to void warranties because of the stuff, then I think they owe it to customers to show some hard evidence in support of their stance.

 

would it be better to wrap the intake pipe to insulate from some heat ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRXnorway &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">would it be better to wrap the intake pipe to insulate from some heat ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would like to know also

 

First of all. I'm sure that moisture will not be a problem as long as it is a stainless steel header that is being used. I wrapped my first header, which was ceramic coated non-stainless header (with it allready mounted on the car) and the only part that rusted was the part that I couldn't wrap. I wrapped my new stainless one-peice Greddy header before putting it on the car so I could do a better job.

I've seen pics/vids of NASCAR V8s and Formula 1 engines being run on engine dynos with headers so hot that they are glowing red. I've never seen anybody put a camera under the hood of a race car while it's racing, but I highly doubt that their headers get THAT hot with constant airflow on the track. I also highly doubt that any of non-turbo Honda/Acura street or track cars ever see those kinds of temperatures. If anybody out there has access to a laser pyrometer, try shooting your header pipes with it after a few dyno pulls or a good track session. I would like to see the camparison.