Ok to start off I had a 5th gear grinding issue in my prelude (95 jdm h22a and tranny). Started happening new years night and have rarely driven it sinse then.

I replaced the original fluid with GM sychromesh friction modified. When i drained out the origianal fluid about 3/4 of a bottle came out I then filled it up with 3 bottles of synchromesh, about half a bottle drained out so it ended up being around 2 and a half bottles. Ne way for the results.

Shifting felt slighty smoother, not as much as every made it seem out to be. The 5th gear grind was no longer there, but i was only driving it easy shifting into 5th at 2,500 rpm. I will keep coming back and posting results as the days progress but so far Gm sychromesh gets a from me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by korndog &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok to start off I had a 5th gear grinding issue in my prelude (95 jdm h22a and tranny). Started happening new years night and have rarely driven it sinse then.

I replaced the original fluid with GM sychromesh friction modified. When i drained out the origianal fluid about 3/4 of a bottle came out I then filled it up with 3 bottles of synchromesh, about half a bottle drained out so it ended up being around 2 and a half bottles. Ne way for the results.

Shifting felt slighty smoother, not as much as every made it seem out to be. The 5th gear grind was no longer there, but i was only driving it easy shifting into 5th at 2,500 rpm. I will keep coming back and posting results as the days progress but so far Gm sychromesh gets a from me.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is not a test, nor did you present any sort of result.

this was an "opinion" using anecdotal evidence and "feel" to back it up.

not that there's anything wrong with it, but you got me all excited like you sent a sample off to blackstone or something.

 

I two have that 5th gear grind. Honda trannys suck! Its there kryptonite.

 

thats funny ^^ honda trannys suck!!

you are an idiot.....think about how much power they can hold and then rephrase that statement

you suck at driving!!

and too is the correct word for also
two is a number

*****

 

i had a 5th gear grind as wel and i replaced the OEM fluid with the friction modified and over time it got a lot better. now im going to change it out and only put 1 bottle of friction modified and 1 bottle of OEM fluid and see how that works.

 

im with the bro here. you do suck alot of things. mainly at thinking. honda fluids my boy, honda fluids. why are you gonna put that cheap **** from detroit in. its made for parts with shitty cleanances...its the american motto.. get that crap outtathere asap.

 

Here's where we all stand with syncromesh:

Lots of people like it. It helps cut down on grinds. Some people don't think the oil is the right spec for our tranny and could be causing damage.

I have no idea. I'm waiting for someone to come up with some proof so we can stop arguing using **** like "it feels alot smoother" or even something reasonable like "it's too thin for the particular mechanical pieces and the stresses that they're under" etc...

so, this is a challenge to the pro/anti-syncromesh kids to take some initiative and actually do a test. Spectrometer analysis might provide some insight. Long term wear tests. Something...

 

I almost used some syncromesh until a mechanic friend of mine talked me out of it. He has taken apart several Honda transmissions that have used syncromesh and found significant wear (these are trannies that had been running with syncromesh for 50,000-70,000 miles).
His train of thought, based on what he's seen, is if your tranny is in decent shape don't use syncromesh, if your tranny is going bad but you can't afford a rebuild don't use syncromesh, if your tranny is going bad and you intend to rebuild it eventually go ahead and use syncromesh for some better shifting.
He suggested I use Mobil 1 MTF fluid, ie the 70-85 wt. stuff. It feels real clunky for the first minute or two (especially during the first week of use), then after it warms up it starts shifting nicely.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2lude4u &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I almost used some syncromesh until a mechanic friend of mine talked me out of it. He has taken apart several Honda transmissions that have used syncromesh and found significant wear (these are trannies that had been running with syncromesh for 50,000-70,000 miles).
His train of thought, based on what he's seen, is if your tranny is in decent shape don't use syncromesh, if your tranny is going bad but you can't afford a rebuild don't use syncromesh, if your tranny is going bad and you intend to rebuild it eventually go ahead and use syncromesh for some better shifting.
He suggested I use Mobil 1 MTF fluid, ie the 70-85 wt. stuff. It feels real clunky for the first minute or two (especially during the first week of use), then after it warms up it starts shifting nicely.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, guess what, I got news for you. I ran syncromesh for about 40k miles, and I dissassembled my gearbox to have my gears Swain coated (get a subscription to PO.com if you want to see the details on that). When I looked at my syncros, they looked in great shape. I ended up replacing them anyways because carbon syncros were only $100 from Gear-speed, but strictly speaking I didn't need to. I don't buy all this "syncromesh is bad" bullshit. It's fine. It's even been lab tested by some people on bobistheoilguy.com forums, and found to be great stuff.

Just because your mechanic has seen some bad syncros doesn't mean syncromesh was the cause. Especially if people are rebuilding gearboxes, it probably means the owners beat on them anyways.

 

First off Syncromesh has been tested by absofreakinglutely no one suprisingly. The best test that anyone here or bobistheoilguy.com forums can yeild is "it feels better after I put it in." Which is a very subjective opinion of the product, when I switch out my Honda MTF at 15k miles it does feel better, why? Because there is new fluid in there for the old fluid!

Here are the facts:
Viscosity:
Honda MTF: Slightly above the middle range 30wt motor oil at 11.26 cST
Syncromesh: Middle upper range of a 20wt motor oil at 9.08 cST

That is a huge difference between the two oils. Not to mention that the Syncromesh was designed for GM cars in mind, thus it wasn't designed to spin with the Honda RPM mindset. Those two alone keep me away from it.

But just to add onto this, EVERY SINGLE upper echelon Honda tranny mechanic that I've talked to has said use Honda MTF for daily driving. There's absolutely nothing better on the market for daily driving a Honda tranny. For track they start to vary, but this is because each has their preference for a THICKER gear oil. Something like Motul Gear300 or Redline MT-90.

Either way, I drive my car in the upper RPM range often enough to be scared if the GM Syncromesh can even protect at those RPM ranges. Sure it may feel better during the shifts due to real friction on the syncros, but for the price and reliability I will go with the Honda MTF every 15k. As the one issue that Honda MTF has is that it's shear happy, so you don't want to run it for more than the 30k mile interval.

 

I know most people run it 50/50, meaning 1 bottle mesh 1 OEM honda fluid. i think its the best of both worlds....

 

IMO sychmesh is just a quick fix for slight gear grinds. It should not be used for extended periods of time b/c it is not the right oil for our trannies. Yes it does solve some grinding issues but like someone else said I doubt a fluid that was designed for GM'S can protect at such high honda speeds.

 

I have been running syncromesh for 3 years in may now....I love it, and its the best thing I have ever done to my car and I have over 3k under the hood in parts.

 

GM synchromesh friction modified is modified for 'more' friction. GM synchros in GM tranny's require 'more' friction to engage the gear than a honda tranny. Of all the tranny's I have torn down with this stuff in it there has been significant wear or 'excessive' if you will.
Also there are Two types of synchromesh friction modified and regular synchromesh. The regular synchromesh 'might' have a benefit at the track, but I use the term loosely. Honda MTF all the way.
The feeling of easier shifting comes from the fact that the friction modified synchromesh is a thinner fluid, you will get the same feeling from the redline MTL. Thinner fluid with increased friction (friction modifier) results in accelerated synchro wear, which both of these accomplish in a honda tranny.

 

I know this is my first post, but I hope I can be of some help... I had the fifth gear grind start about a week after I had purchased my Prelude back in August and had notified the dealership of this problem right away. Luckily this was a Honda certified used car so I would have no problem, right?? Well, they gave me the run around about having to have me authorize tear down of the tranny (around $800) to see if was a warrantable issue and not a result of abuse. Only having the car a week and not knowing what sort of abuse the previous owner had subjected the car to, I was hesitant to authorize the $800 repair for fear they would reject the warranty claim and I would be stuck with the bill. Up until a week ago I thought it was something I was just going to have to live with until I found this...

http://members.shaw.ca/FifthGe...d.pdf

Apparantly this was common enough for Honda to come out with a TSB. I printed the TSB out and showed the service advisor and they took the car in the same day. The car now shifts great and it cost me nothing out of pocket. Hope this helps

 

Sounds like your tranny was 1 3/4 bottle low - this doesn't help

Honda transmissions are wonderful - we are running crazy power with stock gears. Its a good tranny when the gears will hold 4 times the power they were engineered for.

 

just like to say that i to got rid of grinding with GM syncro stuff. worked great.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by greatbiggiants &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just like to say that i to got rid of grinding with GM syncro stuff. worked great.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The issue here is NOT if GM syncromesh helps people get rid of their grinding, it's how much damange (if any) it does to accomplish this. Essentially I see GM Syncromesh as a quick fix for people who have already worn their syncros to the degree that Honda MTF can not mask. Thus the much thinner oil in the syncromesh allows better friction between the syncros allowing better shifting. But puts your tranny in a coffin earlier than it would be with Honda MTF. How much earlier? No idea, but earlier none the less.

 

What's the price comparison b/t Honda MTF and Syncromesh?? Cuz i'm do for a transmission flush and i dunno which to go w/....

 

Honda MTF: $3-$4 a bottle or so

GM Syncromesh $9-$15 a bottle depending on where you go

Take each one and mutiply it by 3 as that's the amount you need to buy for every time you replace the fluids.

 

2 quarts that is all it takes for a 5 spd manual tranny. The syncromesh is crap and is tooo thin and does not have the thermal stability to be used for long periods of time in a honda tranny.. After 5,000 miles when I drained the syncromesh outta my tanny it was black and foamy like dishwasing soap. It is foamy from being to thin and settling which causes excessive heat. The stuff is junk.. I run BG syncroshift 2 product and I like it a lot..

 

and where did u get the BG syncroshift 2?????????

 

http://www.bgprod.com

look for local bg dealers

 

!!!!

First off, please don't get offended from anything I say. I don't like to be a jerk but...

Honda transmissions &gt; You.
To say honda tranny's suck is undeniable evidence of you not knowing much about them, or perhaps you were handed down a honda that had the **** beat out if it's tranny.

There are some guys with FI systems pushing over 300 whp using stock transmissions. Check it out.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Akhany &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Honda transmissions &gt; You.
To say honda tranny's suck is undeniable evidence of you not knowing much about them, or perhaps you were handed down a honda that had the **** beat out if it's tranny.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually Honda transmissions are by far not optimal in design. They don't over achieve, and they are by far not one of the best. One of the biggest issues that Honda trannys have is that all of the shift forks are weak and the syncros are by far not the best design. Holding power is moot as that just means your main components (shafts and gears) are strong, and has good enough lubrication but that's it. The reason why Honda doesn't fix this is the owner of Honda (I completely blanking on his non famiily name right now) wants to have a hand in every single part of the cars that his company builds. Thus he helped design every Honda transmission. His design's just don't call for stronger shift forks and better syncros since he assumes incorrectly that everyone knows how to drive well and is kind and gentle with their shifts.

In any regard, if you absolutely have trouble with your tranny grinding, use Syncromesh. Just realize that you're be replacing your tranny sooner than later. I personally actually DO NOT want the "hot knife though butter" feel in my tranny as with the snight notchiness I know that the shifter has passed though the gate and is in gear. Which is part of the reason why I stay on Honda MTF.

edit: if anyone wants to see the issues with the H22 tranny you can look here:
http://preludeonline.com/showt...+fork


Modified by TimeRacer at 4:22 AM 2/2/2005