whats better in stock trim and why?

 

ohhh, i feel a heated debate coming on

 

if i remeber right its talked about in good detail here https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1124305 dont feel like reading through it again hope it helps

 

come on guys i kwno you have soemthing to say about this.

 

The only reason I would do a gsr over a b16 head is simply because it is easier to get compression out of. The combustion chambers are smaller on the gsr, yielding more compression. The b16 flow just as well, and are quite a bit cheaper. Depends what your build/goals are.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by clean rice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only reason I would do a gsr over a b16 head is simply because it is easier to get compression out of. The combustion chambers are smaller on the gsr, yielding more compression. The b16 flow just as well, and are quite a bit cheaper. Depends what your build/goals are. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I highly agree but there is more intake manifolds for a B16a/ITR head though

 

If a GSR is better.Why don't they put them on Civic type Rs.They come stock from
the factory with a ported B-16 head.And those motors are pretty trick.Sure make alot of power for a 1.6.

 

I have a b16b in my car and it does pull. The only reason for the gsr(imo)is for the more compression. All type r heads are the same, correct me if I'm wrong. He does have a good point about the diff intake manifold options to for the b16/type r head

 

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If a GSR is better.Why don't they put them on Civic type Rs.They come stock from
the factory with a ported B-16 head.And those motors are pretty trick.Sure make alot of power for a 1.6.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats a retarted reason too say one is better..and a b16 head and a itr head is not the same..same casting yes..but one is ported..he didnt ask type r vs gsr did he?

anyhow a certain member on this board who is well respected did a back too back test with the 2 heads..compensating for the bump in compression with the gsr head..and the gsr made more power...easy as that..results...not "oh, the b16b has the same casting head blah blah blah

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If a GSR is better.Why don't they put them on Civic type Rs.They come stock from
the factory with a ported B-16 head.And those motors are pretty trick.Sure make alot of power for a 1.6.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GOLDBERG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

thats a retarted reason too say one is better..and a b16 head and a itr head is not the same..same casting yes..but one is ported..he didnt ask type r vs gsr did he?

anyhow a certain member on this board who is well respected did a back too back test with the 2 heads..compensating for the bump in compression with the gsr head..and the gsr made more power...easy as that..results...not "oh, the b16b has the same casting head blah blah blah</TD></TR></TABLE>

What i think he meant was... if the gsr casting design is better than the b16's, then why didn't Honda use a ported GSR head for the R engines.

d

 

i know what he meant..and its a stupid way too try and say that its a better head.....real results is all that matters..who gives a **** what honda did and didnt do and why

 

i prefer a gsr head than a b16 head in <U>STOCK </U> form
as for intake manifolds that should have nothing to do with choosing a head manifolds are cheap and can easily be replaced.
also from what i have read ect.... when doning work to a gsr head you only have to debur the surface

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GOLDBERG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

and a b16 head and a itr head is not the same..same casting yes..but one is ported..he didnt ask type r vs gsr did he?

</TD></TR></TABLE> B16 vs GSR head

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GOLDBERG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know what he meant..and its a stupid way too try and say that its a better head.....</TD></TR></TABLE> Now how can you say anyone is STUPID

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by daver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What i think he meant was... if the gsr casting design is better than the b16's, then why didn't Honda use a ported GSR head for the R engines.

d</TD></TR></TABLE> That is exactly what I meant

 

I've actually seen some very in depth flow testing on both a GSR head and a B16 head in stock form and the 2 heads flowed nearly identicle.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by clean rice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only reason I would do a gsr over a b16 head is simply because it is easier to get compression out of. The combustion chambers are smaller on the gsr, yielding more compression. The b16 flow just as well, and are quite a bit cheaper. Depends what your build/goals are. </TD></TR></TABLE>

This is the best, most reasonable, unbiased response to the original question. You could also even up the compression ratio on the B16 head to that of the GSR head by using a 2 layer thick headgasket instead of the stock 3 layer. Having a virtual unlimited choice of intake manifolds for your engine I think IS a valuable option and should be something to be considred.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GOLDBERG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
thats a retarted reason too say one is better..and a b16 head and a itr head is not the same..same casting yes..but one is ported..</TD></TR></TABLE>

A b16 head and an ITR head are the same casting but the ITR head has only MINOR porting vs the stock casting. The flow differences are minimal at best. The main differences between the 2 heads lies in the valvetrain and cams etc. It is still quite comparable to the stock B16 head in flow rates.

 

They flow is almost identical, GSR will give you more compression.

Most of the B-series shootout builders went with a GSR head.

 

Ahh, i looked into to all this stuff a few months ago......so here's the deal.

1st off both heads are very very similar in performance. The gsr (p72) head has slightly higher compression due to its smaller square quench area which is actually less prone to detination. It actually makes about 2-4 horsepower over the lower rpm range up till around 5000rpm.
The B16 (pr3) head takes over around 5000-5500 rpm has has the 2-4 hp advantage from there on in. There are also many different manifolds that can be interchanged on the pr3 head.

I would say neither head is better than the other, they just powe slightly different powerbands from one another.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GOLDBERG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know what he meant..and its a stupid way too try and say that its a better head.....real results is all that matters..who gives a **** what honda did and didnt do and why</TD></TR></TABLE>

I sure care what and why Honda did what they did, seeing how they're the experts. "Real" results may vary, as you can see in comparing the "well respected member's" results and Deetz's research he mentioned above.

If the b16 head design is inherently better suited for higher rpm flow that the gsr's, then it would stand to reason why Honda chose it to modify for the R engines.

d

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GOLDBERG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thats a retarted reason too say one is better..and a b16 head and a itr head is not the same..same casting yes..but one is ported..he didnt ask type r vs gsr did he?

anyhow a certain member on this board who is well respected did a back too back test with the 2 heads..compensating for the bump in compression with the gsr head..and the gsr made more power...easy as that..results...not "oh, the b16b has the same casting head blah blah blah</TD></TR></TABLE>

Here's how I see things. When it comes to determining which head to use, cost is the primary consideration. But Honda had both head castings (ie PR3 and P72) at their disposal. And given the similarities of these heads, it would not have costed them any more to use one over the other. Furthermore, the GSR head could have been ported just as easily (and cheaply) as the B16A head. Also, they made a completely new intake manifold specifically for the ITR/CTR. So the expense of making a single runner type manifold for the GSR was not a factor, either. The bottom line: cost was not the factor that made Honda decide on the B16A casting. Something else was. And that could only be one thing: performance.

 

It depends on the application, i believe. If cost is any factor at all, go with a b16. Theyre everywhere.

 

Would you say that the b16 IM flows better than a GSRs? There must be a reason why most aftermarket IMs are based on the castings of the typeR, which is closer to the B16 design and not the GSR IM.

 

The reason most aftermarket intake manifolds are based on the type R mani is because there are more b16 heads out there. catering to the masses... And the stock p72 manifold is better for torque.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EG6R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would you say that the b16 IM flows better than a GSRs? There must be a reason why most aftermarket IMs are based on the castings of the typeR, which is closer to the B16 design and not the GSR IM. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It wouldn't be very economical to make an aftermarket performance gsr style manifold. Two big things going against that. The complicated bulky design would be very expensive to reproduce, and its inherently a "compromise" manifold. They would be hard pressed to match an itr style manifold for hp. Porting out stock gsr manifolds is the only feasable route, and they do it.

d