As far as I know nobody has done this yet in a honda. The biggest detriment is the opening of the tank. I think I have figured out a decent way of going about it, but have yet to start the project. Physically both pumps with their socks will fit in the tanks area designated for the pump so it will be somewhat easy after the mount setup is constructed.
Anyone have any insight, or even know of anyone who has successfully pulled this off?
Dont tell me to sump the tank.....Im fully aware of how to do that.

 

why?

 

have you ever been happy with just one of something? lol. It sounds like a good idea, if you can justify having around 450lph of fuel flow

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by c jackson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you serious? Why not? I dont want to spend the money for a $400 inline fuel pump, more than $300 on hose/fittings, more money and time sumping the tank. Twin walbro's will flow more than enough gas to support 800whp safely.
Yeah, I know people say that one will support 600whp. Do you want to rely on a $90 part to keep your $5000+ engine from blowing? I am shooting for 650+whp.
Im sure once I figure it out that A LOT of people will also do it, I feel pretty strongly about this. Already another member is really anxious to see what I come up with, and this is the first time I spoke about it publicly.

 

Well, you're definitely not the first to think of it, but let me ask you this. If you don't want to risk your $5000 engine on 1 $90 pump, then why would you on 2? If you have one pump and it fails, the motor will likely quit running, going so lean that it won't run, more than likely not causing any damage. Now, if you have 2, and one goes bad, you will more than likely not know about it until it's too late and you've toasted your motor. I think one big reliable pump is the safest way. I completely understand not wanting to go through all that with the sump and everything, but I don't think 2 is safer than 1, that's for sure.

 

Tony, it will be wired up on 2 seperate circuits with warning lights in the dash showing if one or the other failed, possibly in the future even going as far as running Hobbs switches on them wired into the ems to cut ignition if a problem were to arise. I think that is on the extreme end of it, but non the less a possible choice. Are you saying that a walbro fuel pump is not reliable? I believe them to be some of the most reliable pumps out there. The big inline's like to be finicky with their mounting level. Also need to stay cool. Ive heard on more than one occasion of both the Aeromotive A1000 series and also the SX pumps failing....not to say they are not reliable, but a failure is a failure.
The Supra and RX7 guys live by this setup. Hell theres even a kit for the Supra that involves triple walbro's now.


Modified by 93LSivic at 11:28 AM 1/24/2005

 

A lot of Supra guys have been running the twin Walbros or twin Supra TT pumps for a long time already... Mainly because the hassle of an external pump, and the streetability issues of external pumps. I have had several buddies of mine with lowered cars scrape the pump on a large pothole/speedbump or have severe weathering issues with a bunch of wiring under the car. Another buddy of mine ran through an old rusted exhaust pipe on the highway and it ripped everything out. It was a sad sight. Cost difference was a big factor too...

I have dual Walbros in my Camry... My fuel tank's opening was large enough, so all I had to do was make a custom bracket to hold both pumps. I used the stock pump 12v as a signal to trigger my secondary pump relay.

You will have to upgrade your stock fuel feed line though. The stock Honda line will be too small to support the peak flow of the two pumps. You might have to up size your fuel return too.

What I have done was run two -6AN fuel lines from the fuel pump cover to both of the fuel rails for a dual feed setup. In between I have a fuel pressure sensor which connects a ground circuit when pressure drops below 42 psi, and this triggers an LED light if the fuel pressure drops just in case one of the pumps fail and cannot keep up with the flow.

Here's are some pics:





Walbro pumps are pretty reliable... Never had an issue with these pumps on all three of my cars for the past 6-7 years. They are dependable, and two of them won't make any difference IMO.

Price difference is huge... I already had one Walbro pump, so the cost to upgrade was for one pump ($95), 10 ft of SS braided line ($75), 10 ft of aluminum fuel line ($20), wiring ($15), two fuel filters ($60) and the pressure sensor switch ($30). I had a lot of spare lines too

 

I have had an SX fail on me. No fun when youre 3.5 hours from home. Luckily it was freeway cruising, so the car just stalled.
I have a customer thats going twin Walbros in his S2k. A LOT cheaper than external and all that crap, especially when it involves dropping the tank on an S2k(and the rear subframe, suspension).
If I ever go big power w/my S, twin walbros gets my vote!

 

Tony the Tiger, thanks for the info but Ive been around for quite some time and know what Im doing I like your LED/low fuel pressure idea!! By the way, you have red x's for pics.
Here is my current setup using -6an for feed/return. I will be using either another run of -6 for each pump or use -10 for both pumps.

 

As a matter of fact, I have seen a couple walbro pumps go bad, but I only brought up the reliability issue because you did. "Do you want to rely on a $90 part to keep your $5000+ engine from blowing?" I think the hobbs switch is a great idea. Checking power of each will only tell you if the power in is ok, but the hobbs switch will tell you the bottom line, if they're each working or not. I've seen a couple supras loose motors because of a failed pump. I think with the necessary precautions taken it's a good route to go. Oh, and I agree about the reliability of SX pumps, they suck! I use Weldon pumps, from my past experience with them, they're pretty reliable.

 

I had a set of twin walbro in my civic over a year and a half ago. Faulty design lead to one breaking off and just dangling in the tank.

 

HKS in tank supports 800 hp
I've seen it make 580 whp

 

http://www.2kracing.com/produc.../4324

 

That is just a Bosch pump. Im familiar with that pump and actually owned one in the past, but never used it in my setup.
Tony, so you suggest that I should only go inline with a big manufacturer. Trust me, if the funds were there I would go Weldon without a doubt. But since Im limiting myself somewhat you wouldnt suggest I even give it a shot? Not that I doubt you, I know you are VERY knowledgable but can you really say that this is a bad idea? Ive spoken to Jason Hunt and he said that he ran a walbro single pump at 600whp and had no problems......would 2 of them really be a bad idea. I would like to somewhat pioneer this and would like for it to be both reliable and somewhat inexpensive, arent we always trying to save a buck and go fast? Not that I doubt what you say, but I think it's worth a shot. If I lose a motor, then I lose a motor and I do it "right" the next time knowing that was the weak link. Im not trying to argue what you suggest, just trying something different and are very open to all suggestions, thanks.

 

so how are you going to keep the pumps from fighting each other. I think that you will greatly reduce the lifespan of both of them.

Why not just rig a hobbs switch or other type of switch with a relay, so that if fuel pressure drops too low, the second pump will kick on? This could even be done with a solenoid so that one pump won't pump through the dead one, rather than to the engine...and at the same time, protect the pumps from working against each other.

 

aem has a setting where you can turn on a secondary pump at a certain speed

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16hybridsol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">aem has a setting where you can turn on a secondary pump at a certain speed</TD></TR></TABLE>
Most any aftermarket engine management setups will include at least one rpm-actuated output. You may use it for a shift light, fog horn, neon lights, or whatever you want. Many setups will have 2-4 of these.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Engloid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Most any aftermarket engine management setups will include at least one rpm-actuated output. You may use it for a shift light, fog horn, neon lights, or whatever you want. Many setups will have 2-4 of these.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I beleive the EMS has 16 "auxilary" outputs

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tinker219 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I beleive the EMS has 16 "auxilary" outputs </TD></TR></TABLE>
Which EMS? AEM? I've not heard much good about AEM really. From what I hear they seem to want to specialize in a plug and play setup that focused more on dummies than people that actually WANT to tune their specific car to the best settings. Maybe this is changing. 16 outputs is very nice... if that's the case, I hope they have all the other stuff needed also.

 

Yes, sorry, AEM. Ya, they are plug and play, but seem to be slowly swinging around for the more "hardcore" tuners. I had one when V.94 was the newest thing. Lets just say I sold it because it never worked, there were too many bugs. Now that V1.11 is out, well, my first engine startup occured with an AEM unit.
On top of that I didnt have to cut my $30k S2000 engine harness up to use a decent management system, so Im all for that!

 

Obviously money is an issue, and there's nothing wrong with that. I do think that 1 weldon is better, but that being said, if you get creative and make some sort of a "safety" system with hobbs switches or turn one on with boost, then I think it'll work great. The only reason I say it's something to think about is because with 1 pump you'll know when it fails. It doesn't matter if you're making 600hp on one pump, it's actually safer than making the same on 2. When a car goes extremely lean (no fuel pressure), you have alot better chance of not hurting anything than if it just looses about 20lbs of fuel pressure and you end up at 13.8:1 or so. You see what i'm talking about? It's not only the reliability of the pumps you have to be concerned with, it's your mount and your wiring as well. If anything fails, your motor is toast cause you likely won't know anything has even failed until it's too late.

 

I'm curious as to everyones thoughts on this versus the bosch intank pump. I'm personally in the position to upgrade my fuel system, and I've been leaning towards a sump setup with an aeromotive a1000 pump, but I'm also considering other more cost-effective alternatives.

http://www.theoldone.com/components/fuelpumps/

 

I really like the twin tank design. Im just not too sure on how the feed and return system needs to be setup. Anyone have some pics of exactly how they have the lines coming off the pump to the fittings to the rail.

I saw the -6 return/feed on fuel pump bracket but I think something bigger is needed

**now that I see tony the tiger's setup I have a better idea**

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOUNDEFFECTS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I really like the twin tank design. Im just not too sure on how the feed and return system needs to be setup. Anyone have some pics of exactly how they have the lines coming off the pump to the fittings to the rail.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hell, why not divide up the gas tank into 4 parts, one for each injector. Eleminate the fuel rail entirely. Each injector can use completely different fuel supply and return lines. Then you could run 4 Walbro injectors!!! That would have to add mad hp's!!!

 

^^

hehe hes da man.