I just posted this up on EP hatch in a K-Pro vs. Guardian thread, and thought I would open this up. Here is the challenge.

Here is an interesting concept. Has anybody tested the two against each other? Mod for Mod? If anybody geographically close to me has similar mods to mine, I would be willing to travel, and pay for the dyno time just for the sake of the challenge.
here is my mod list for those that are intersted.

AEM CAI
JRSC supercharger with 4.0 inch pulley
RC 440 cc injectors
DC Sports Shorty injectors
Random Tech High Flow Catalytic Converter
Borla Cat Back Exhaust.
K-Pro, Professionally tuned

Anybody out there up for the challenge?

** Please note, this challenge is purely for the sake if "scientific interest" What I propose is a straight up HP challenge, highest WHP # to win.

Also, this is primarily intended to compare K-pro to Guardian, so if there are any differences to mods then we would have to agree on a correction factor ahead of time. For example. It is acknowlendged that a race header generates more power than a shorty, so if that was a difference we would have the agree on a corrction factor. The difference between an AEM CAI, and an Injen CAI is purely a matter of argument so I would propose no difference between those mods, or between a DC sports shorty header, and other shorty headers, or a test pipe, and my high-flow cat.

I would note that while I have chosen K-Pro for my car, I have no special relationship with Hondata, and in fact have not discussed this with them, and I have not ever even talked to Cybernation at all.

 

E-Smith mentioned a problem with my proposed challenge on EPhatch, so I have proposed this solution

If any two people have similar mods as described above but with turbo's instead of S/C, but more specifically cybernation turbo since that is all you can get guardian with, but one is running K-Pro, and one is running Guardian, I will pay for both of them to dyno on the same day and at the same facility.

 

Good call, I was wondering how you were going to compare the two since you are S/C'ed. If it happens, my predictions say there is a 50% chance that guardian will win or lose.

 

are you looking for a specific turbo setup? i'm assuming both cars must have a cybernation setup, but a k-pro/ guardian comparison. this is rare. good luck with your hunt.

 

It wouldn't have to be any specific setup, just as long as it is two setups that are as close to identical as possible.


Modified by LucidMoments at 4:07 PM 12/21/2004

 

I'm not particularly sure what Guardian is, but just guessing it is simply another tuning program, as long as you have similar number of points of adjustablility there should be no difference. A tuning program is a tuning program is a tuning program.

The biggest differences are the extra options and support.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DarkKnight[DMD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">]I'm not particularly sure what Guardian is, but just guessing it is simply another tuning program, as long as you have similar number of points of adjustablility there should be no difference. A tuning program is a tuning program is a tuning program.

The biggest differences are the extra options and support.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Guardian is supposed to self tune, so that it automatically adjusts to different variables. You can't make external changes to Guardian. No fuel maps, or external control over timing, or anything. That is the attraction of the Guardian system, that no expensive tuning is necessary.

 

But if it some how malfunctions then you havea blown motor. I think K pro would be better just because you arent relying on a computer to pick everything for you. With K pro you tell the computer what to do.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dacaveman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But if it some how malfunctions then you havea blown motor. I think K pro would be better just because you arent relying on a computer to pick everything for you. With K pro you tell the computer what to do. </TD></TR></TABLE>

what if the K-PRO doesnt listen?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LucidMoments &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Guardian is supposed to self tune, so that it automatically adjusts to different variables. You can't make external changes to Guardian. No fuel maps, or external control over timing, or anything. That is the attraction of the Guardian system, that no expensive tuning is necessary.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow, never in a million years would I trust that. Especially not from Cybernation. It sounds great and all, but, uh, you guys go have fun.

 

If k pro doesn't listen. Then hell has just frozen over. J/K I would trust hondata over cybernation anyday.

 

i have a fereind with a dc5-s (02?) who just blew up with guardian

 

Well tell him quit boosting so much with stock internals (I assume anyway) I haven't heard anything bad about cybernation guardian from the CRSX guys.

 

guardian is a black box automatic tune that's supposed to take care of evreything.

yer best bet would be to look for a greddy user that uses guardian. it's easier to find a greddy user that uses kpro than it is to find a cybernation user that uses kpro.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Steve26 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well tell him quit boosting so much with stock internals (I assume anyway) I haven't heard anything bad about cybernation guardian from the CRSX guys.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Have you heard of anyone making good power on CRSX?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lube &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Have you heard of anyone making good power on CRSX? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well if 300+ on all stock internals with low boost is good, than yes.

 

true...there are many RSX-S and base users with the CN kit and Guardian who are running 290+ hp on stock internals... there are about 5+ EP3 owners with the CN kit who are running 260+ hp on stock internals... and only 1 owner has been reported blown up due to his Guardian unit (beta testing stage)... Guardian doesnt just self tune but it also allows perfect a/f ratio, and protection. It utilizes the engines sensors and automatically sets off a "limp mode" when the engine is passing its limits.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Steve26 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well if 300+ on all stock internals with low boost is good, than yes. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Low boost is not a number. What psi are you talking about?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by oinojo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">true...there are many RSX-S and base users with the CN kit and Guardian who are running 290+ hp on stock internals... there are about 5+ EP3 owners with the CN kit who are running 260+ hp on stock internals... and only 1 owner has been reported blown up due to his Guardian unit (beta testing stage)... Guardian doesnt just self tune but it also allows perfect a/f ratio, and protection. It utilizes the engines sensors and automatically sets off a "limp mode" when the engine is passing its limits. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Perfect a/f? Do explain.

 

guardian will tune on the fly. It will adjust the A/f ratio to its given moment. This allows for safe part throttle boosting. Also if your vacumm line from the wastegate would happen to shoot off, guardian will sense the sudden surge of boost and send you into "limp mode" instantaneously. So you can mash the pedal as much as you'd like and you wont have any problems with detonation.

 

Im currently running the greddy kit - 300whp 9 pounds of boost, without a 3 inch downpipe like cn kit has. Thinking 310-320whp with the downpipe in place.

With that said, I dont think there are too many cn kits making 310-320whp on 9 psi unless they are running t3/t4 60-1s which flows alot more than what my td05-16g small does.....

As far as "Guardian" I really dont buy everything they are throwing out to the public. Every motor is different with different needs - I feel guardian offers a general tune which is not what I want with such an expensive car. They might put out good dyno numbers, but power is not what i would be 100% concerned with...reliability is a major factor....

K-pro is simply a better system. Stand alone management, full tunability, built in boost controller for both cold and hot temps.....Cam angle control and full control over timing - something that is not offered with guardian

 

yet... CN is developing a stand alone unit called Guardian Dream E.C.S ....or something close to that matter... it will be nearly identical to Kpro but with all the features of Guardian. You will have the ability to use Guardian for daily driving safety, and then switch over to the stand alone for track use. The stand alone is supposedly going to interpret the safety features of the regular unit except it will give allowance for performance sake. Also the stand alone has the ability to do all that kpro can do... and is supposed to be cheaper and more reliable that kpro.

 

IMHO, CN will never be able to live up to what Hondata does. Hondata will always be one up on CN, Im no expert tuner, But some of my friends are. Better yet, if you want to have another guardian VS Kpro thread....bring in some pro's like Tony P or St00pid. I say get the opinions of people who tune cars for a living.

 

CN is more hype than anything. There a small beat up shop out of Ft Lauderdale. Their turbo kits for the dc5 are not really kits but random off the shelf parts thrown into a box and shipped out. Everything needs to be modifyed from cutting the intercooler pipes to modifying the cn made downpipe. The only parts they include that are CN parts are their downpipe and exhaust manifolds which look like pure ****.

 

I think you guys are getting the wrong idea here. I didn't intend for this to turn into a Hondata, or Cybernation bashing thread. I was just proposing a way to find out which gave the most power, and that purely for the sake of discussion.

Both companies provide good products that meet differing needs for different people. Hondata allows for more user adjustability, but Guardian will protect you from yourself if you do something stupid. I don't know that one is necessarily better than the other, just different.