For the average newbie turbo Honda enthusiast looking into Uberdata or other standalone setups (like me *raises hand* ), please enlighten us as to the difference between dyno tuning and street tuning.

-Which is more effective for partial-throttle tuning?
-Which is better, in YOUR opinion and why?
-Which is better for a street car, and which is better for a race car?
-If you had to choose between spending $300 to buy a wideband and tune yourself (assuming you can tune), or spending $300 on 2 hours of dyno tuning at a reputable shop ($140 DIY, $150 they do it ), which would you choose and why?

Thanks in advance guys/gals. Mase, JDogg, J. Davis, and all the other H-T tuning gods chime in here to help out ALL us turbo Honda geeks!

 

If your tuning for part throttle I would prefer it on the street. The dyno cant simulate the drag on the car etc..etc... Just seems natural to want to tune the car while driving like you normally drive everyday. I'm not a "tuner" per say but all the times I had my hondata retuned kinda gave me some insight on it. When we tuned my h22 (S2 stage II cams, header, SS valves, spring, retainers) It liked vtec at 4900 on the dyno. It hit nice and didnt bog at all. Then we took it on the street after tuning and it would bog with the vtec @ 4900. So we had to raise it to 5100. I also heard other guys from well known shops in my area talking about taking there race-cars out in the middle of the night to tune them on the street.

Just my 0.02$

 

yeah but you cant tune ignition so i would hit the dyno, you can make more power if you have the ignition down right, go to elite i heard they are pretty good

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Btothe3rdDegree &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah but you cant tune ignition so i would hit the dyno, you can make more power if you have the ignition down right, go to elite i heard they are pretty good </TD></TR></TABLE>

I already planned on going to Elite. Shane and Mo are the shiet.

 

you going this winter? we should get some peeps and get a discount

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Btothe3rdDegree &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you going this winter? we should get some peeps and get a discount </TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL, you said Elite and "discount" in the same sentence.

J/K, they're spendy but worth it.

 

i say that because last year they had a winter special, hopefully they will again

 

you need both.. period... no matter what kinda dyno you use or how well you use it, nothing replaced street tuning and street tuning dosnt replace dyno tuning. if i was limited then id only do the street tuning and use a conservitive timing map.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you need both.. period... no matter what kinda dyno you use or how well you use it, nothing replaced street tuning and street tuning dosnt replace dyno tuning. if i was limited then id only do the street tuning and use a conservitive timing map.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good to know.

Looks like I should invest in a wideband anyways, THEN hit the dyno when I get the extra money.

 

Both have their ups and downs... and like jdogg has pointed out I too would also choose the street tune over the dyno tune. Now another aspect that was not mentioned is the type of dyno used. If available, I would choose a steady state dyno which can hold load steady. Dyno-jets cannot hold loads which is typically why people who have their motors tuned solely on a dyno-jet have shitty driveability. On a steady state you can fine tune your parameters but you may not hit all of them like you would driving in your average 'city scenerio.'

Timing of course plays a huge issue in power and with a road-race engine it is nice to tune the engine using a steady state dyno so you can dial in the timing.... especially since when you roadrace midrange is what can make or break you.

 

VERY good info. about dynos, keep it coming.

 

most engines ( at least hondas) will like pretty much the same timing curve, all you need are a few points and to get the full load advance curve established on a dyno, you can "fill" in the rest. remember to keep it smooth and "pretty" there shouldnt be any sharp transitions in the timing maps

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Both have their ups and downs... and like jdogg has pointed out I too would also choose the street tune over the dyno tune. Now another aspect that was not mentioned is the type of dyno used. If available, I would choose a steady state dyno which can hold load steady. Dyno-jets cannot hold loads which is typically why people who have their motors tuned solely on a dyno-jet have shitty driveability. On a steady state you can fine tune your parameters but you may not hit all of them like you would driving in your average 'city scenerio.'

Timing of course plays a huge issue in power and with a road-race engine it is nice to tune the engine using a steady state dyno so you can dial in the timing.... especially since when you roadrace midrange is what can make or break you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Pretty much what I was going to say. Dyno Dynamics and Dynapack are both load bearing. Hit several spots and interpolate from there.

If you tune on one of those, you still have to make corrections for changes in air temperature etc. later on down the road, assuming your engine management allows for it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostincoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">-If you had to choose between spending $300 to buy a wideband and tune yourself (assuming you can tune), or spending $300 on 2 hours of dyno tuning at a reputable shop ($140 DIY, $150 they do it ), which would you choose and why?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i would choose (and i did) to invest in equipment and time/knowledge to tune myself. i'm glad i chose this route, because i now know MUCH more about my car, and can tweak things whenever i want. also, if i ever change my setup in the future, the tuning is free

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by d@ve.G &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you tune on one of those, you still have to make corrections for changes in air temperature etc. later on down the road, assuming your engine management allows for it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Correct. That is why of course street tuning allows you to tune in the actual conditions the engine will operate in.... why did I forget to mention that? duhr.

Anyways... here is some copy and pasted info reguarding an inertia dyno (dynojet, etc) vs. a steady state dyno (dyno dynamics, etc)

Steady State Type Dynamometer

The steady state type dyno works by running the engine against an alternator, the output of which is used to calculate the torque produced by the engine at certain rpm levels. The steady state description refers to the fact that the output of the engine is measured at a steady rpm level. Other examples of steady state dynos use oil or water, which is forced through a pump, as a means of measuring the output of the engine.

Inertia Type Dyno

The inertia type dynamometer uses the test engine to accelerate a flywheel from a standing start up through the engines maximum workable rpm range. The inertia description refers to the flywheels natural tendency to want to stay in a non-moving state, i.e. in order to make it move, you have to use the power of the engine to make it turn, otherwise it is quite happy to stay where it is.


I know it's generic info... spare me the lecture

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Btothe3rdDegree &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you going this winter? we should get some peeps and get a discount </TD></TR></TABLE>

i'd be down for this. i wouldn't want any dyno "time" but i'd like a run to see where i'm at as far as power is concerned

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by keebler65 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i'd be down for this. i wouldn't want any dyno "time" but i'd like a run to see where i'm at as far as power is concerned </TD></TR></TABLE>

i heard you aint bad with uberdata, i could always use some help if you ever get a chance
anyone else wanna join a dyno day let me know

 

Mustang dyno tune first. Then street tune to perfection.

 

after personally seeing Mase tune a car...i think its all about the street tune...after a long night/early morning of street tuning, the car ran better then it ever did, and no better after it left the dyno...but after the dyno we had a number to tell people...

 

I am a street tuning guy as well... It is hard to simulate real life loads especially on the dyno...

I only use the dyno to do the final cleaning up... Although with a wideband O2 and datalog feature, all the maps can be 100% cleaned up anyways. The dyno is only there to measure the power output and pretty much it.

 

It would be different if you guys had access to better dyno's.

i have a dyno dynamics dyno and i tune all cars on the dyno and then follow up to make sure everything is fine on the street. it always is.

But yes no matter how you look at it you'll need both to do a proper job.

Even after their tuned on the dyno at races i'm constantly datalogging and make slight changes all the time.

 

i got a question for tuners, do you guys usually tune non boost areas? i know you tune fuel, but do you tune ignition? if so how conservitive is a honda map?

 

my car was street tuned worked OK. dyno tuning made the big power and made it smoother.

the initial street tune ( for driveability) you get with say, Hondata, will be fine (1-2 hours), but i STRONGLY recommend a dyno tune afterwards.

 

I agree with JDogg, get the best of both worlds. Street tune and dyno tune. That's what I'm going to do.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Btothe3rdDegree &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i got a question for tuners, do you guys usually tune non boost areas? i know you tune fuel, but do you tune ignition? if so how conservitive is a honda map?</TD></TR></TABLE>

tune those areas for good economy and throttle response.. as long as it drives good and gets good gas mileage 90% of the time you got it right