I posted in the EF forum, but as you can see they either don't know or aren't talking...

I'm hoping someone here can help:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1057496

 

More front camber, less rear camber. 2 is not enough in the front and too much in the rear.

I would not throw that much springrate at it like you were suggesting. Maybe 750/1000, but anymore and I think you'll be bordering on too much--especially for autox and how light your car is.

 

you mention in the other thread that you may be running out of suspension travel... are you? Also, what sort of toe are you running? Stock size rear sway bar or none at all?

Christian, who needs more information...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I didn't notice at the time, and didn't take any measurements, but is it possible the itr knuckles in the front are of a different size/ geometry? </TD></TR></TABLE>

!
Sounds like only one issue there. What type of suspension are you running? Is there enough remaining travel with the ride height of your vehicle? Camber is your freind, but use it where it's needed, your tires will tell you.

 

225s on the rear? if so, that's too much tire. Please
don't say you hate tire stagger, mid/rear engine cars
run it -- FF should too.

BTW, if you're using ITR knuckles why? You can simply
machine the EF knuckles to accept the "ITR" wheel bearing.
The bearing determines which hub you can use.

 

yes, the itr knuckles are taller than the ef ones.

 

Hey everyone, thanks for the responses!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tom_l &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes, the itr knuckles are taller than the ef ones. </TD></TR></TABLE>

by how much? I don't have the civic ones anymore to compare.....

Todd00, I will try your suggestion of more camber up front and less in the rear. If you have time, please PM me some idea of where to start...

Xian, I am using stock 91 si swaybars all around. I could disconnect the front, but not sure if this will give the effect I'm looking for. Toe in front is near zero (less than 1/16" out) and toe in rear is zero I think as well. I'm not sure if I'm running out of suspension travel - anyone know what I should double-check to be certain? So far I've been going by feel and by looking at the upper inside of the fenders to see if the upper a-arm has been touching up there.....

CRX-RX, I'm using itr front knuckles and brakes and itr rear hubs and rear lca's. I'm using apexi n1 coilovers (99-spec) with 11kF/ 16kR springs. Everything else suspension related is stock to the vehicle. The coilovers are height and preload independent, so I'm able to retain as much travel at any height. But I suspect I may be bottoming out the front somehow..... ryan12321 co-drove the car at a recent autox and commented that he thought it was something to this effect.

WWDTrackRacer, I will try a less wide tire in the rear.
I was unaware that the ef knuckles could be machined to fit. This is a definite possible solution I will look into ASAP.

Does anyone know of or have a link to some pics/ measurements of EF front knuckle assembly vs itr one? I actually only need the civic one, as I can measure my itr one myself.....

 

Ken,
Since mine are off the car I will measure them today for you and you can compare.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ryan12321 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ken,
Since mine are off the car I will measure them today for you and you can compare.</TD></TR></TABLE>




Could you perhaps drop them off at the machine shop for me and have them modified to fit my itr bearings?

Then we'll slap them on my hatch and do some "testing." :D

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Xian, I am using stock 91 si swaybars all around. I could disconnect the front, but not sure if this will give the effect I'm looking for. Toe in front is near zero (less than 1/16" out) and toe in rear is zero I think as well. I'm not sure if I'm running out of suspension travel - anyone know what I should double-check to be certain? So far I've been going by feel and by looking at the upper inside of the fenders to see if the upper a-arm has been touching up there.....</TD></TR></TABLE>
The car may be bottoming the front shocks against the bump stops but still not be to the point that the upper arms are hitting the body... I'd suggest snugly putting a zip tie around each shock piston at the front of the car. Drive the car around some and check to see where the zip tie is. If it's up against the bumpstop/buried in the bumpstop you may want to think about upping your front spring rate or raising the car to keep it from bottoming out. Additionally, you may want to look into a larger rear sway bar to increase total roll rate (specifically rear roll rate).

As always, just my $0.02

Christian

 

well, the itr ones are taller...doesn't even matter how much taller...the geometry is getting all messed up. don't even think about doing anything else till you put on the ef knuckles again. you said yourself you didn't want a band-aid solution. do you really need the 5 lug? reeaalllly?

 

I forgot to measure the stuff. I was too angry at everything that has gone wrong putting everything back together.

With my suspension I have a ton of suspension travel. I would look at the length of the lower shock forks and shock length on the ITR that yours came from vs. the EF stuff. I'm pretty sure the ITR shocks themselves are about 1" longer which is just taking away from your suspension travel. If the forks are longer too thats another hit for you. And don't try and convince yourself that just because you have a full coilover kit that has adjustable stroke that you will retain as much suspension travel as you want. It still runs out.

 

I mainly asked because I know that with my CRX, that has double adjustable suspension made for a type R, to attain even a "lowered" ride height of 13" from the hub center to fender lip that I had to modify the front shocks to fit and the rears are out of lower adjustment. I can only hope that you stayed where I was at and did not want to lose spring preload for further ride height removal. I don't have any pics of the knuckles side by side, but have been over this point a # of time over the years, even with the DA knuckles, they are approx 1/4" taller (EG/DC similiar height) than the EF knuckles and noticably throw off handling charechteristics. Hey, as a bonus to switching over to the EF knuckles you'll drop some weight I used the SiR knuckles on one of my CRX's this season with very pleasant results. The only tradeoff is that you have to cut and thread further in on your inner tie rod end and the tie rod is moved further away from the center of the hub, but despite all that they feel very similiar to stock. That would be one option for you. The reason I went that route is that the SiR knuckles utilize a larger wheel bearing than the US EX knuckles that everyone else will recommend.

Also, the front shock forks between EF and DC chassis are the same height, just a larger circle for larger shock body.


Modified by CRX-RX at 1:29 AM 11/20/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I posted in the EF forum, but as you can see they either don't know or aren't talking...

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I posted

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Doctor CorteZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I posted </TD></TR></TABLE>

*with the exception of the smart guys like dr. cortez above.....*

Anyone got some cheap 90-91 ex knuckles lying around I can play with?

That appears to be what I need according to this thread:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=864313

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Anyone got some cheap 90-91 ex knuckles lying around I can play with?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I wish.

they're getting pretty rare.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX-RX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The reason I went that route is that the SiR knuckles utilize a larger wheel bearing than the US EX knuckles that everyone else will recommend.

Modified by CRX-RX at 1:29 AM 11/20/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do you know how much larger the SiR knuckle wheel bearings are than the US EX knuckles? Are the SiR wheel bearings the same size as the DC wheel bearings? I may have some access to some JDM SiR knuckles, and am planning to install my old 5 lug suspension on my CRX...

 

Use 90-93 knukles with the 5 lug hubs.

 

They are the same size as the DA integra wheel bearings without the geometry sacrifices.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX-RX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They are the same size as the DA integra wheel bearings without the geometry sacrifices. </TD></TR></TABLE>


CRX-RX, I meant to thank you earlier for your contribution to this thread.....!

I was under the impression that 90-91 civic ex sedan front knuckles would work once I machined them to fit the itr wheel bearings..... Remember I still need to use the itr calipers and mounting brackets.....

Would the si-R front knuckles be more ideal?

 

bracing the rear LCA's mounting area to the body seems to help out a bit. I have the nuespeed RL Tie Bar and it's certainly noticable difference. One magazine did a test about 7-8 years ago showing a .2 second drop in 1/4 mile time after this one mod.

My car is probably a bit different than yours but on several other cars I've done this with solely have all seemed in line with this

You could do this integrated with an aftermarket sway bar or go with a single piece like this one from beaks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sans &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">bracing the rear LCA's mounting area to the body seems to help out a bit. I have the nuespeed RL Tie Bar and it's certainly noticable difference. One magazine did a test about 7-8 years ago showing a .2 second drop in 1/4 mile time after this one mod.</TD></TR></TABLE>


WHAAAT?!

 

I have never actually done the conversion that you are undertaking, but was always under the impression that you would need to machine the hub to fit the stock bearing for the knuckle. If this is the case for you then that is why I would recommend the SiR assembly, as I have gone through my share of wheel bearings.

 

i suggest bigger rear and smaller front sway i'm running a 22 rear and 17 front (stock hf) i dont have any shocks yet so i cant say anything about rotating.. but i've talked to many drivers and they say crx front sway bars need to be small and 2 of them werent even running a front sway bar..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WWDTrackRacer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
BTW, if you're using ITR knuckles why? You can simply
machine the EF knuckles to accept the "ITR" wheel bearing.
The bearing determines which hub you can use.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, but..... the stock ef front knuckles seem to have different mounting points for the brake calipers... that won't work for the itr 5-lug calipers.....

I also have the issue that I'm using the abs sensors and abs from the itr... I don't suppose the siR knuckles (or 91 ex knuckles) have the mounting points for these do they.....?


Modified by Black R at 3:54 AM 1/9/2005