Well, take this for what it is worth, being only my car as a test...

Baseline, 94GSR / AEM CAI / 98 JDM type R header / USDM type R cat back / test pipe / 97 type R intake cam 0, 0

160.9 WHP, 120.2 WTQ Dynojet

Took off GSR IM and put on BLOX, left stock TB, and added 3" short intake with K&N from old gsr AEM. Drove around for a couple of days, everything checks out OK.

NO TUNING with either setup.

160.4 WHP, 121 WTQ same dyno

Now interesting part, lost 5-10 WHP and 5-10 WTQ from 3500 to 4500 rpm, another 4-7 WHP and 4-7 WTQ lost from 4500 to 5500 rpm, from 5700 to redline almost identical curve to the old setup.

All of this on stock P72.

My conclusion is that this type of mod requires engine tuning, much more aggressive cams, and even then it will be 5K up job, only way to restore 3500- 5500 would be higher compression pistons.

After these extra mods it will pick up the mid-range and gain on the top end, but then agian what would stock GSR IM do with all those extra mods? One never knows without trying and spending money, what is for sure is that BLOX on my car only matched GSR IM 5700 up and lost everywhere else, well there is always another day...

AGAIN, no tuning was done, just bolt and dyno on mild GSR.

 

Bump

 

god damn.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ninor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All of this on stock P72.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

maybe that's why. gsr IM stock is 2 stage. so the ecu is programmed for that. take a chipped p28/vafc hack..hondata..or any other type program...see where that leads you.

 

I always doubt intake manifolds like Skunk2, lost hp on most mild GSR setups.
First, the intake manifold uses the B16 type intake port which doesn't align perfectly with the GSR intake ports. I don't know about the Blox, but the Skunk2 is like that.


Modified by biassj at 11:56 PM 11/17/2004

 

Will you be getting new ecu/tuning done? If so please post those results!

 

vtec is probably too low for manifold. get a p28 or an itr ecu (if obd2)

 

come on guys, stop making excuses...on the an-r website the blox made 8whp more than an oem gsr im on what you ask? a stock gsr...well this thread tells me different. say what you want....vafc hack, p28, blah, blah, blah....in the end, i believe if you aren't making mad power with big cams, high comp and a high redline, there are very few im's that work good with the gsr head. i could be wrong, but, i've seen this also with the p30 im vs. itr/s2. just my $0.02

 

I know tuning can restore the low end from a 4-1 header upgrade. I don't know about an IM upgrade tho. Its hard to beat the low end on a gsr with the stock im and a 4-2-1 header combo tho.

Is it any surprise that you're not making any more peak hp without tuning? You must be running awfully lean up there by now.

d

 

Dunno what happened there bro.
First time i heard of that

 

Update...

Just for the books I am not running lean I am running slightly rich 12.8 - 13.

Anyway, did cam gears, installed VAFC2 and changed vtec, just moderate stuff, no effect on low mid range, whatever I do this is 5500 rpm plus deal...

It is my daily driver so I do not have time to play with this too much. I am not ready right now to add other parts to imporve on this (pistons, mill head, cams)

Low mid range is gone, and I can not do anything about it with BLOX on my car. I do not know what other cars/motors would do...

With limited tuning on my motor I can get 2-3 extra WHP at 7500-8000 using BLOX,
but driving my car around the town, it simply stinks, unless I am WOT it is not moving, drives like civic DX.

Last night I realized that I have learned my lesson, and I spent 1/2 hours looking for my old GSR IM in some garbage bags behing garage (didn't have a place to keep it), well I was very happy when I found it.

Let just say that I have spent an hour cleaning my old GSR IM, o I miss it so much... It is going back on tomorrow.

BLOX I will keep, and re visit once I have 11:1 + comp and bigger cams, but even then I'll first tune with GSR IM in place and compare properly, I just LOVE mid range and I am shocked as to what difference 7-8 WTQ makes... Even *** dyno is screaming of difference...

My story short is that BLOX on my car, even with mild tuning does not really do anything for power, even at high rpm which should have been its teritory and simply removes low-mid range (up to 5500). Keep in mind that this only applies to my motor here, I did not have a chance to try this on more that one car.

Like I said, this is limited tuning with limited tools, but then again this is stuff that most of us "regular" people use (not hardcore).

BLOX does look like quality product, but it is not a bolt on, it is high comp, stage 2/3 cam kind of mod.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ninor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Update...

Last night I realized that I have learned my lesson, and I spent 1/2 hours looking for my old GSR IM in some garbage bags behing garage (didn't have a place to keep it), well I was very happy when I found it.

Let just say that I have spent an hour cleaning my old GSR IM, o I miss it so much... It is going back on tomorrow.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

haha, i'm glad some one else has decided to keep the stock gsr mani too. Did you notice much midrange dip with 4-1 header upgrade?

I guess the blox is overkill, an 8krpm+ mod? I'm surprised that you didn't add some hp up top with it tho, if you're not running lean at all.

d

 

see this thread..

http://www.team-integra.net/fo...eDESC

his dynos at the beginning of the thread have similar numbers to your's with the stock intake mani. he has a simalar setup too, minus your 4-1 header.

now check the last page and he says he added a blox mani and tuned it for a 9hp gain - 171whp. with 4-2-1 header and stock cat.

d

 

I'm almost wondering if a properly matched TB and custom ecu tune will help.

I got 157hp with my b16a w/no cams and 1.75" chambered axle back - untuned.

 

The problem is see with this is the stock GSR ECU. Since there are secondaries in the GSR manifold, VTEC kicks in at about 4500 RPM so when you put a manifold with single runners on you have to raise the VTEC crossover to something higher like 5500. Of course it's gonna fall off because VTEC is engaging too low for this kinda manifold. That's why you have secondaries in the GSR. I say get a P28 and run it that way and see if you don't pick up some horsepower! I bet you will.

 

I bought VAFC2 and did change VTEC point, but no effect on 3500 - 5500.

I tried anything from 4600 to 5800. Even did a run with 3000 and 7000, it crossed at 4900, so 4800 looks ok.

The only place for tuning here is timing and fuel (could go a bit leaner), and some power can be had higher up, but again mid range can not be recovered in my car.

Extra 5-10 hp at 7500 rpm, even though respectable, is not what I am looking for, if I have to give up 10 WHP and 10 WTQ at 4000 to get it...

I also had a chance to look at some dynos of other cars with single runner manifolds (mild setups) results are identical to mine, some people did get 7-10hp up top with extensive tuning, but even after all that they have mid range of a B16...

 

wow....that leaves me speechless..my buddy bought a pretuned B18C1 swapped EG hatch....just last weekend, I installed his BLOX IM, and a AEM ShortRAM...it has not been dynoed..but the throttle responce is amazing, it "FEELS" way faster..we needa get that thing dynoed

 

My car felt AMAZING too, before dyno. I thought that I had gained 10 -15 hp 5700 plus, in rain car would start spinning tires 2nd gear at 6000 rpm, BUT

once on the dyno it was clear why car felt like this, mid range was gone and 5700 up transition was very immediate, that is why it felt like turbo that just spooled up.

Either way, post back once you have some results, but you really should have dynoed before changing it to have refernece point...

 

Put your stock GSR intake manifold back on.

Swap some del-sol piston, milled the head a bit (comp like 11.5:1), install ITR cams, a good header, i.e. like a DC 4-1 JDM, striaght pipe, 2.5" kteller exhaust. After you do this, dyno it. From there, re-dyno it with the BLOX IM, then post up how much power you made. Thats a mild setup.

 

We might differ as to what we call "mild" setup.

But I have something else to try...

For a few months now I have BC 3+ cams sitting around, maybe I give them a try.

I need to minimize amount of work here, since I really do not have time available...

So, I know that BC says stock springs are OK on stock rev limit, but I have a hard time with EXH at 11.5 lift, single spring does not inspire confidence at that lift.

Anyway, I also have Omni's springs and ti retainers somewhere in the garage...

My plan is this:
replace exh springs and retainers leave intake stock (10 k on springs anyway) and do some WB 02 on the street with VAFC2 leaving BLOX for test. Maybe if I have time put back on GSR IM later and re-dyno.

Where do you put your money on?

 

this thread is really starting to make me think twice about swapping the manifold on my B16A. It has SRI, ITR cams, 4-1 X-tune header, and 7mm wires, maybe i will wait for other mods before getting another intake manifold

 

Hi, i have a B16A CRX and i'm thinking to change my B16A intake m. for an GSR IM, my first question is, Its possible to do this? both fit?

I read that almost 2 guys felt great throttle response but at dyno there was no difference, am i right?

What about mounting adj cam gears?

Thanks

 

making me think twice

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by daidilus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this thread is really starting to make me think twice about swapping the manifold on my B16A. It has SRI, ITR cams, 4-1 X-tune header, and 7mm wires, maybe i will wait for other mods before getting another intake manifold</TD></TR></TABLE>

I did the skunk 2 manifold with the type r throttle body...Man you ever feel a b16a midrange it sucks even worse. You'll have to spin your motor to aleast 6,500 rpms to get any good mid. Basically it's shifts the whole power band 4,500 to 6,500 rpms 6,500 to 8,500 rpms . Which is a narrow power band for a gutless b16a (refering to my b16a). But too lazy to take off the manifold. But I think I can make up some of the loss torque by switching back to a 60mm t/b.

 

These definatly arent excuses. The GSR is set to engauge vtec at 4400. The intake manifold is designed to be smaller during that rpm and then open up at 6100 rpm when there is enough torque and horsepower built up. If you put a single stage intake manifold on a gsr, you have to change the vtec point or your going to lose horsepower...its just to low!