Yes, a beaten-to-death thread, sort of...

I know what others have done, but most are either turbo'd or they're spinning the hell out of the engine, going for ultimate power. I want to make a list of parts needed to reach 200whp with a couple limitations: keeping the stock rods and pistons, and keeping the redline stock or at worst, no higher then 8,000. These limitations are somewhat arbitrary but I want to know, can it be achieved? The idea is that the limits above will make a reliable engine (as far as these things go,) and one that isn't tremendously expensive, since the lower end is left alone and it isn't having the hell rev'd out of it.

I know it will take at least:

Head work, port and polish (not sure what "stage")
Cams, again, not sure how extreme.
Valve springs
Possibly ported IM though this doesn't seem to worth it, true?
CAI
Good header, SMSP type
Exhaust
Larger injectors, only if needed
Tuning!

The trick is to improve breathing without counting on high revs to achieve the extra power. Do you think it can be reached, or is the only way with higher revs and/or higher compression?

 

Crower stage 2's (with appropriate valvetrain) with 11:1 compression and a good header should get you 200 by about 7500 rpm. I would not spend the $$$ on headwork outside of a valve job as the stock head flows really well. But if you don't want to take the bottom end apart then weld the chambers for higher compression.

Along the lines of an IM I could suggest the Accord type R single runner manifold. Porting the stock one won't do much for you as far as the dynos I have seen.

And at sea level my OBD1 345cc/m stock injectors were about maxed out. You could go with 370's and you'd be fine or crank the fuel pressure.

Oh and another idea that would be even easier for you would be to swap out the H22 crank for a balanced H23/F22 crank and rods. That alone should put you in 11.7ish compression ratio and then just add cams and you should be good to go.

For an idea of different setups I suggest looking at the Official Prelude Dyno's page in the FAQ sticky.

Pirate

 

Hijacking my own thread... just how high a compression can you go on 91 octane (the most we can get here in SoCal). I realize cam overlap affects the answer greatly...

Anyway, for the sake of discussion, lets say I stay with stock 10:1 compression. Does that make it not possible?

 

200 HP :drool:

That would cost alot........but would be soooooooooo worth it.

 

Good point about the Accord Type R IM. Where do you get one from, ebay? And thanks for reminding me what's in the FAQ... been here long enough I haven't looked in a looong time...


Modified by kb58 at 6:06 AM 10/7/2004

 

H23 VTEC, big cams, bolt ons. You should get there quick

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kb58 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good point about the Accord Type R IM. Where do you get one from, ebay? And thanks for reminding me what's in the FAQ... been here long enough I haven't looked in a looong time...


Modified by kb58 at 6:06 AM 10/7/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>

For the ATR IM I would recommend http://www.hmotorsonline.com, they have them in stock and sell them fro $250 plus shipping, since you say you are in So. Cali. you can pick it up depending on how far you are from them since they are also in So. Cali.

 

With some really good tuning (or super lumpy cams) about 12:1 compression is about as high as I would go for compression on 91 Oct. And getting 200 Hp off of 10:1 is not that hard but it it starts making headwork more necessary (expensive) and reving higher to get the HP might be necessary. And the exhaust manifold can be a deciding factor too. How did you decide on your EM design? Did you calculate it for the bore/stroke/rod length/valve diameters/cams or what? I ask since you have the header already and changing engine geometry can change the header requirements.

On a recent trip to texas (almost sea level) I was running 11.3:1 on some crappy 90 0ct (advertised as 'premium') and I had no problems (my maps were tuned at 5000 feet elevation too).

Also you might not have the same problems with your car that I might have given the weight difference. More weight lugs the engine and casues higher loads on internals. (I could be wrong I am working on logic here)

I have not looked into the ATR mani so I don't know where to look other than ebay. Maybe you can google for it.

Pirate

 

i got 198whp with a Jdm h22a, intake, headers, exhuast, msd coil, lightweight flywheel, egr valve mod, 10ml Ht leads, and a vafc2 tuned...no internals unless i have a freak motor

 

oh and 98octane gas..max power is was at 7160rpm

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PirateMcFred &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">With some really good tuning (or super lumpy cams) about 12:1 compression is about as high as I would go for compression on 91 Oct. And getting 200 Hp off of 10:1 is not that hard but it it starts making headwork more necessary (expensive) and reving higher to get the HP might be necessary.... Pirate</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, if $1000 of head work is needed to compensate for not raising compression (which would have been done with a used H23 crank and rods,) then perhaps I need to readjust my thinking... Keeping the revs near stock seems to be the most important thing for making a H22A1 last. If I don't need to bore the block, sure, dropping in a H23 crank and rods is fine, as long as it'll still run on 91 octane. Good point, thanks.

 

Im hoping to hit 200 after i get some crower 2's and a prospeed header wich i think i will.I am at 178.4 now. I also hope the cams react well with my skunk 2 manifold.

 

Also with stock H23 block and stock H22 head and subsequent low compression most people were putting down around 185ish hp. So with higher compression alone it would put you in the 190's.

So go to a salvage yard or look in the classified forum and get a cheap F22/H23 crank and rods.

If you go that route and want to see what happens without upgrading cams I would recommend some adjustable cam gears to increase the overlap as it made a significant difference with mine.

Also what are you expecting along the lines of reliability? This is your race engine right? not your daily driver.

Pirate

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PirateMcFred &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Also what are you expecting along the lines of reliability? This is your race engine right? not your daily driver.

Pirate</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, it's going in the car in my sig. I'd expect good reliability since the rpm limit is stock. From reading here it seems like there are two things that kill stock H22s, &gt;7psi boost, and reving past the stock rpm limit. If I don't do either, what would prevent a good engine lifespan (&gt;50,000 miles)?

 

Depending on how many miles are on your engine already then tuning it, doing the usual preventitive maintenance and keeping it at the stock rev limit with OEM internals then I do not see why it can't last that long. But it will wear faster since it is not your daily driver.

Pirate

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PirateMcFred &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...But it will wear faster since it is not your daily driver.

Pirate</TD></TR></TABLE>

I assume you mean it will wear faster in the capacity of being a "weekend warrior" engine, right? The above gives the impression that it won't last long because it isn't driven everyday. No... just sitting there it'll last forever, right?

 

It will wear faster since the miles that you do put on it will not be at cruising rpm's. So when you do run it the cams will in VTEC so there is more lift so the valves/guides/springs wear faster. The elevated rpm's also wear the rings faster and will be harder on bearings. ANd the added heat will affect oil lubricity too. So when you drive your Mini the mileage on the engine will be completely different than the same engine on the highway cruising at a steady 50 mph.

Pirate

 

So based on the above, the recipe for a 200whp H22A1 running 91 octane is:

H23 crank and rods
Stock H22 pistons
Accord R intake
Stock head and valves
Stage 2 cams + springs
Adjustable cam gears
CAI
Good header, SMSP type
Exhaust
Larger injectors if needed
Tuning!

Is that about it?

 

Just buy my head.

Jun stage 3 cams
Jun Titanium retainers
Jun Valvesprings
OEM Valves
hand P&P by a former jun employee
Prospeed header

I bet you can hit 200 whp. only reason i cant is because of my code 9 and of my damn atts. stupid peice of junk. I baslined at 190 without tuning.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kb58 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So based on the above, the recipe for a 200whp H22A1 running 91 octane is:

H23 crank and rods
Stock H22 pistons
Accord R intake
Stock head and valves
Stage 2 cams + springs
Adjustable cam gears
CAI
Good header, SMSP type
Exhaust
Larger injectors if needed
Tuning!

Is that about it?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think all you'd need with good tuning is:
Accord R manifold
stage 2 cams & gears
Upgraded valvesprings
Valvejob
Thinner headgasket
Good header (prospeed, smsp etc.)
Custom 2.5 Exaust
Im thinking with ur car it'd be better to make a custom intake.

 

will teh accord r manifold fit on the h23a if not what is another route for an intake manifold for an h23a

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by accord387 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...Im thinking with ur car it'd be better to make a custom intake.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's something I'd like to make; while it's straighforward to make, I suspect it's a whole lot harder to make one that creates good power. Everyone falls in love with these great looking intakes, only to find later they aren't even as good as stock, or only offer gains &gt;8000rpm where most of us don't go...

I'd have to research it first, but good point, it could be fun.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kb58 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's something I'd like to make; while it's straighforward to make, I suspect it's a whole lot harder to make one that creates good power. Everyone falls in love with these great looking intakes, only to find later they aren't even as good as stock, or only offer gains &gt;8000rpm where most of us don't go...

I'd have to research it first, but good point, it could be fun.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Im not to sure how to go about it, havnt put thought into a mid engine h22 intake before. I'd assume you could just do the regular short ram shielded from the motor and the shielding run somwhere (lol i have no clue where to run it in the rear end) to pull cold air. I know the mugen intake makes exteremely good power that way a lot more then a aem cold air or any other.

Edit: im not a super tuner or anything so wait for somone else to put in their views about what i said lol.

 

You could be pragmatic about it. Dyno the engine you have as it sits and then make decisions. Saves a lot of guess work.

Pirate

 

i am about to swap an h22 into my prelude, i have the h23, are you guys saying use the crank and rods out of the h23 and the pistons off the h22