Yesterday my Hayabusa ITB's came in. I wanted to make a plenum setup similar to Tony the tiger's like this..





But I was thinking. instead of having a plenum to be scavanged for air when the valves open. just have runners/piping going into each throttlebody thru an exhaust collector like this...


Think this is a good idea or not?


Modified by Boostage at 2:54 PM 10/1/2004

 

I would really to see how this would work...I think it would be a good idea.

The only thing I think you would have to worry about is making the individual piping to big from the point where the collector starts....couldnt this affect flow??

Jon

 

I think the plenium is a better idea. It would distribute flow more evenly across the ITB's.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattssi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think the plenium is a better idea. It would distribute flow more evenly across the ITB's. </TD></TR></TABLE>

thats kinda the opposite of what I would expect with the collector. why do u think it would be uneven?

 

Its not a good idea unless you know engineer wise or unless you an airflow specialist.

 

See with the individual TBs and plenum you can still ram a bunch of AIR in there and have reserve for the next intake stroke BUT having one runner eahc and small oit will backtrack I think and have nowhere to go needing a HUGE BOV

Maybe have a reversion like effect if you don;t have a plenum and use a collector like that. Let's get some smart people in here to answer, Geoff, Jeff, Tony, Bob Norwood?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostfed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">See with the individual TBs and plenum you can still ram a bunch of AIR in there and have reserve for the next intake stroke BUT having one runner eahc and small oit will backtrack I think and have nowhere to go needing a HUGE BOV

Maybe have a reversion like effect if you don;t have a plenum and use a collector like that. Let's get some smart people in here to answer, Geoff, Jeff, Tony, Bob Norwood? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Geoff talked about this and he basically said its not a good idea.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MidShipCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Geoff talked about this and he basically said its not a good idea.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

your comments are very vauge man.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

your comments are very vauge man. </TD></TR></TABLE>


Well I know you remembered that FI ITB you started.

He told us why, so I went read about it, hes an engineer and he was right.

I also read it only helps low-mid range not high.

I dont know but I think thats from injector placement.


Modified by MidShipCivic at 4:14 PM 10/1/2004

 

reminds me of when lovfab made his "intake manifold" using the fullrace copy...haha...

 

Wow...that looks fucken crazy dude . Good job

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

thats kinda the opposite of what I would expect with the collector. why do u think it would be uneven?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I am in no way qualified in the field of fluid dynamics or all that crap, But just thinking about it.... If you had a intake that split into 4 individual lines going into each TB, once the intake valves closed, you would have alot more reversion, especially in a boosted situation, than you would if you had a plenuim setup, that way when the number 1 set of intake valves close, No 3 cylinder opens up and take some relief off the intake charge stuck at the closed valves on cylinder no 1. if that makes any sense. But like I said, I don't have a degree or anything, But i have seen this topic discussed before on other boards, and the general concensus is that a plenuim will yield more gains.

 

I remember some old posts that may help a few ppl too lazy to search.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=473099
D Series / ITB

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=692046
Another one.

This seems to be another HT reoccuring topic. Every few months someone brings it up. But nobody seems to have any new solid evidence its even worth the trouble.

HTH

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattssi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I am in no way qualified in the field of fluid dynamics or all that crap, But just thinking about it.... If you had a intake that split into 4 individual lines going into each TB, once the intake valves closed, you would have alot more reversion, especially in a boosted situation, than you would if you had a plenuim setup, that way when the number 1 set of intake valves close, No 3 cylinder opens up and take some relief off the intake charge stuck at the closed valves on cylinder no 1. if that makes any sense. But like I said, I don't have a degree or anything, But i have seen this topic discussed before on other boards, and the general concensus is that a plenuim will yield more gains. </TD></TR></TABLE>


Let the techs do the talking :-P if a plenum will have more gains to solve the problem he would just put a plenum on there like above.

The problem is the throttle body after the plenum.


Modified by MidShipCivic at 5:13 PM 10/1/2004

 

I guess tony and myself will be the only people to provide real world experience, I am going to do the plenum, Boostfed made a damn good point on the reversion with closed valves.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I guess tony and myself will be the only people to provide real world experience, I am going to do the plenum, Boostfed made a damn good point on the reversion with closed valves.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Is it me or are you ignoring the facts?

None of us are engineers or no fluid dynamics like changing a tire.

Are you gonna go off assumptions and what you think are good points?




Modified by MidShipCivic at 6:10 PM 10/1/2004

 

Well my airflow calculations and my hypothesis get me to here


Airflow in CFM=X
Turbulence=Y
Positive Boost Pressure in PSI=B
RPM=R
# of runners=M
<U>15B x 1200X x Y</U> = May work Boostfed DON'T KNOW!
8000R x 4M

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MidShipCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Is it me or are you ignoring the facts?

None of us are engineers or no fluid dynamics like changing a tire.

Are you gonna go off assumptions and what you think are good points?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

what facts? U said you read a book, thats about it, then u said low and mid range gets a big increase but top end doesnt. lets say you are accurate on that.. I could use that low and mid range, as far as top end, my car is 100% street car, and will be pushing an sc61, Im pretty sure I will make more top end that I can use, even if theoretically a big stb and manifold can make more.. just for the record I currently have a jg intake.

I owe it to myself to try this. if its not good then I can always go back to my JG, if it works out to be the just like Tony said(which is teh opposite of what u read), then I can still hold on to my Jg or sell it. I have to try since only one other person has.(Tony) I suspect it will work out great for me, espcially since I just want a reponsive steet car and not a 700hp drag car.

I cant imagine so much turbulence being created that I couldnt push over 500hp if I wanted that much ( I dont) so what am I sacrificing? peak power that I dont want/cant use for power where I need it and use the most? if its one thing u said to me that makes me want to do ths more is that U confirmed low and midrange improvements.

 

That's the last time I go and make mathematical/scientific/physics calculations! No respect!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostfed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's the last time I go and make mathematical/scientific/physics calculations! No respect! </TD></TR></TABLE>

your formula is missing vtec

 

I'm talking about what an engineer said : Geoff.

ITB's goes against this. http://www.mecc.unipd.it/~cos/....html

Look up helmholtz resonance fluid dynamics or something man cause things won't work out man your just going off assumptions.


You wan't low end? make a dual stage manifold, beats any itb you can throw @ it.

A properly sized single TB I'm sure can be just as responsive. When the last time you stepped on the throttle and nothing happen and suddenly power came on just becuase of a plenum and a single T.B.?

 

Im not big on paper calculations.example.. compressor maps show that a 60-1 is too big for a 1.6 litre motor.. but if U ever driven a b16 with one which I am sure u have. U know thats furthest from the truth. now I have noticed an undersierable hesitation with a big STB before, thats why I am a firm beleiver in stock sized tb's vs 70mm ones. and stock tb's with normal intakes, dont have the response I would like... not for my sized turbo at least. Boostfed had a similar experince with a 70mm stb, thats why he is still running a stock with 600whp.

btw, I do feel Geoff is a little biased. since he is selling intakes. hate to say that but thats how I feel.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im not big on paper calculations.example.. compressor maps show that a 60-1 is too big for a 1.6 litre motor.. but if U ever driven a b16 with one which I am sure u have. U know thats furthest from the truth. now I have noticed an undersierable hesitation with a big STB before, thats why I am a firm beleiver in stock sized tb's vs 70mm ones. and stock tb's with normal intakes, dont have the response I would like... not for my sized turbo at least. Boostfed had a similar experince with a 70mm stb, thats why he is still running a stock with 600whp.

btw, I do feel Geoff is a little biased. since he is selling intakes. hate to say that but thats how I feel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well I had two 68mm TBs from different companies and they stuck bad and were so tight on teh TB plate spring it was terrible so I swapped to a stock Si TB 60mm , I now have a JG/Edelbrock 65mm TB and it is like STOCK! I love it I may try to go up to their 70-75mm TB based off their Mustang TB's but I hope they work as well as my 658mm TB now!

 

ok then I stand corrected. Boostfed

btw midship Jeff is also an Engineer https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=473099

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok then I stand corrected.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Also I don;t think Geoff is BIASED at all, Geoff and Full Race , TRUE are a Business BUT they are in this to bring SUPERIOR products to the market and affordable prices! Before you say they are expensive it is true they are BUT are the best and they have done things TO eventually offfer manifolds quicker with better quality control and at cheaper pricing! I feel Geoff and Jeff Evans worked on this manifold design together to get people the best Intake manifold that would be affordable with material that won't need repairing such as the AIR. Geoff has told me on several occasions he and the rest of Full Race are not in it for the money, not at all, HE ENJOYS what he does and SPEEDS everyday just to get into to work because he is still excited to go there! I wish I would say the same about my job! They have had big losses, he is in it for the love it and the sport and to help the racers out there with the best products BAR NONE! Not a Full Race plug at all! I believe that if the ITB for Forced Induction was the **** then it would have already been done and done and done over again and perfected. Only my opinion, again it is an opinion. Also depends on what your goals truly are! Excuse any spelling errors!