From what i've seen the more common swap seems to be a d16z6 head swap to the a6 block.i however would like to do the d16y8 head swap. I have looked through and read in their entirety both pages on the mini me swaps, these two here.. and i still have some questions. and yes i've used the search button
http://crx.honda-perf.org/arti....html
http://crx.honda-perf.org/arti....html

From what ive read i feel pretty confident in being able to do the z6 swap. I see it requires you swap out the a6 fuel pressure regulator with one from a 93-95 civic in order to get the fuel to be correct, and that is for the z6 swap. when i read up on the y8 swap its talkin about needing a wideband air/fuel gauge to tune it which is making that head swap much more expensive then the z6 which doesnt say it requires anything for fuel changes besides the fpr. So my question is do you really need a wideband to make the y8 swap work or will swapping over the equivalent y8 fpr be enough to make it run correctly. it also mentions keeping detonation in check and i'd like to stay away from that lol, so any insight on that as well would be greatly appreciated.

All that being said is it worth it to go with the y8 with the slightly higher CR instead of the z6? or should i just do the z6 swap

 

I just did the a6/y8 swap and it was a piece of cake once I figured out what parts I need.

You do not need a wideband or tune for a mini me swap.

Differences:

Z6: All 10 Head bolts match teh a6 block
Y8: 9 Head bolts work with one y8 by the vtec solenoid.

Z6bd0 dizzy does not bolt up to z6 head
Y8bd0 dizzy does bolt up to y8 head

As long as you follow the z6 mini me writeups and exhange some of the things unique to the y8 you should be fine. I'd also recomend converting to obd1 but I stayed at obd0 with teh stock si engine harnes and dizzy.

 

thats odd. so your saying that i need 9 head bolts from the a6 head and then one y8 head bolt by the vtec solenoid? Since i'll be replacing all these mostly likely it would make since that i can just get 10 new y8 head bolts correct?

 

good info im about to do this as well, y8 head on d15 block, so subscrided..

 

the y8 head bolts are shorter.

I reused 9 a6 head bolts, and ordered one y8 bolt from the dealership.

The reason being, is that on the a6/z6 heads, the bolt by the vtec solenoid sits higher and therefore needs a longer bolt. If you run the a6 bolt on a y8 head, it sits lower, so when you screw it in all the way it actually bottoms out and u cant torque it down.

Therefore, you need that shorter y8 bolt there like stock, and then 9 a6 or z6 head bolts for the rest.

If you wanna run ARP head studs, you have to order a6/y8 head studs, and then you'll need a certain head stud that arp makes. Its a custom #. A y8 arp head stud will not work.

I researched this heavily and the head bolt issue held my swap up for a while.

Any questions lemme know.

 

thanks for the very clear information sir

what do you think so far of the swap? how big of a difference does it make over the stock a6 head? is it that noticeably quicker?

also for the y8 swap did you need a diff fpr cause the z6 swap info sais to get a 93-95 fpr but i would imagine i might need an equivalent fpr that originally came equipped on a car that had the y8 to start with. like a 96-00 d16y8 fpr maybe? itd be nice if the stock fpr would work but i doubt i could get that lucky lol

 

hey if you decide to go with a y8 head, check out my sig! If you want you can also do the y8 intake mani/throttle body for even more gains....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HBK:CRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the y8 head bolts are shorter.

I reused 9 a6 head bolts, and ordered one y8 bolt from the dealership.

The reason being, is that on the a6/z6 heads, the bolt by the vtec solenoid sits higher and therefore needs a longer bolt. If you run the a6 bolt on a y8 head, it sits lower, so when you screw it in all the way it actually bottoms out and u cant torque it down.

Therefore, you need that shorter y8 bolt there like stock, and then 9 a6 or z6 head bolts for the rest.

If you wanna run ARP head studs, you have to order a6/y8 head studs, and then you'll need a certain head stud that arp makes. Its a custom #. A y8 arp head stud will not work.

I researched this heavily and the head bolt issue held my swap up for a while.

Any questions lemme know. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i hate to thread jack, but i dont want to start another thread thats almost the same, is this the same for the d15 block? pm details if you want

sorry to the OP but free bump for you

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cryabandonship &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i hate to thread jack, but i dont want to start another thread thats almost the same, is this the same for the d15 block? pm details if you want

sorry to the OP but free bump for you </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes. All Dseries motors from 88-95 had the same head design, then in 96-00 the bolts were shorter.

But, you have to run a different timing belt for the d15. I believe its the 92-95 vx timing belt but you can search I know I found the info before.


I havent had the chance to really drive it yet. Its not streetable at all but I have gone up and down my street and it spins first just slamming on the gas.

Couple reminders.

You need for the a6 block,

a6 waterpump
a6 timing tensioner/spring
a6 crank
y8 timing belt


I had researched and someone said you need a b7 belt but thats way too loose. Just gotta make the y8 fit/

 

Good info, most people don't talk about the head bolt/stud difference, but it's important. I would go with the Z6 head if you plan on doing anything with it later on. I ran a Y8 mini-me for a while, and did some minor P&P on it with a Crower stage 2 cam. IMO, the Z6 head is a lot better for flow, read around and you'll see that it has "tumble ports" vs the Y8's "swirl ports". The result is that the Z6 head flows better, and has more power potential, but the Y8 should get better MPG and mid range. I don't know about the FPR thing... I ran a stock Z6 intake manifold on my A6 and then on my Y8 head just fine, I don't think it's really an issue. You'll need a Z6 or Y8 timing belt, they are the same, but the Y8 is cheaper from Honda than the Z6. Same deal on the headgasket, use the Y8 OEM MLS gasket. The nice thing about the Z6 too is that you can just run it on a stock P28 and be more or less correct for fuel/timing maps. You don't really want to convert to OBD2a and run a P2P for the Y8 head.

One thing that I didn't see mentioned is that you'll need a cam gear for whatever head you use, the height is slightly different and makes the timing belt 1/2 tooth off. Use an adjustable cam gear and advance/retard (depending how you install) 4.5 degrees.

The power difference between a mini-me and a stock A6 isn't that much, especially with IHE. A good aftermarket cam will really wake up the mini-me, I was very impressed with my Crower Stage 2 once it was tuned.

Whatever you do, do it CORRECTLY and convert to OBD1 and run the correct ECU or a chipped ECU with the correct map for the engine (or tune it).

 

I dunno why someone said the FPR is even an issue. You run the fpr for whatever intake manifold you use.

I have a complete y8 intake mani and fuel rail on mine. You can also use the complete stock a6 or z6.

The 1/2 tooth off issue is what held me up the most. I read that using a stock y8 head and an a6 block, it would be off 1/2 tooth (4.5 deg.) but I was later on corrected. Apparently if your using a y8 cam and gear, you just said it to TDC like you would a stock head.

Now, I had to use a z6 cam, so I bought an adj. cam gear and had to correct the timing.

 

Wow, thanks for all the great info guys.

HBK:CRX- so your saying your mini me swap appears to of made a big difference in how much quicker your car is now? if thats the case why "downest" do ya say the difference between the stock a6 and mini-me isnt much?

Also i should say i really dont have much money to get an aftermarket cam and whatever i need to tune it. im just tryin to make it a bit quicker without to much extra engine or ecu work, and im just now gettin into the more complex inner workings of honda tuning lol.

And also since at the moment im planning on using a stock y8 head and cam then i will not need an adjustable cam gear right? one post said i did but another said thats not the case. i just want to be sure before i start getting parts rounded up for the swap. oh and thanks guys for your help thus far

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D16SiHatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow, thanks for all the great info guys.

HBK:CRX- so your saying your mini me swap appears to of made a big difference in how much quicker your car is now? if thats the case why "downest" do ya say the difference between the stock a6 and mini-me isnt much?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

No no, what I'm saying is comparing an A6 with intake, header and exhaust. The stock header is a big restriction on the A6 IMO. Check out these dyno sheets of some different D series engines, notice the mods (they are pretty basic). Maybe tyson will chime in since it's his info (he linked me to it a while ago), at least one of those A6s was burning oil and running in not-perfect shape.

I was running my mini-me for a long time, and I really liked it. My last setup with it was with PM7 (ZC/D16A1) pistons running just over 12.5:1 compression, and it was a lot of fun. I wanted to try something new and more challenging so I swapped a spare A6 head back on, which is stock for now while I'm working on another one I have. I haven't dyno'd it yet, but it definitely feels about like my mini-me did with the Crower cam, before the high compression pistons. I'm going to try to get it on the dyno at work before I swap the other head on, to see what kind of gains I'm getting.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Also i should say i really dont have much money to get an aftermarket cam and whatever i need to tune it. im just tryin to make it a bit quicker without to much extra engine or ecu work, and im just now gettin into the more complex inner workings of honda tuning lol.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

The aftermarket cam isn't necessary, but it's certainly a great gain for the money, probably the most noticable "bolt on" increase in power. You'll have to tune if you get one though, my mini-me wouldn't even hold idle with just a stage 2 Crower!

The management (ECU and wiring etc) IS necessary, if you want to run it correctly. If you're not willing to do that, you may as well just not run the mini-me.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And also since at the moment im planning on using a stock y8 head and cam then i will not need an adjustable cam gear right? one post said i did but another said thats not the case. i just want to be sure before i start getting parts rounded up for the swap. oh and thanks guys for your help thus far </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think the post above is incorrect... I had a stock Y8 gear at first too, and I couldn't get the base timing correct at all with it. When I was trying to set it, the dizzy needed to go a little more one way than it could. I moved the belt a tooth, and then it was a little too far... you need the adjustable cam gear to set the base timing correctly. You can run without one, and it will run ok, but it won't be quite right. If you must do this, just set it 4.5 advanced and run higher octane gas to be safe, and start looking for an adjustable gear. You should be able to find one used for around 50 bucks, that seems to be pretty standard.

 

i'm running a zc y8 mini me i think it's great..high compression i was beating integra's even i/h/e gsr until my clutch went out...but yea it's great...since mines a high compression i upgraded my fpr to a holley adjustable and b18 fuel pump...and i believe my buddy told me he used a dx timing belt...

 

The DX timing belt is too large, just use the Y8/Z6 belt and a little elbow grease to get it on.

A friend of mine bought AgentJam's CRX with a high compression A6/Y8, it dyno'd at something like 160whp/130wtq, and it's got a killer midrange.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HBK:CRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You need for the a6 block,

a6 waterpump
a6 timing tensioner/spring
a6 crank
y8 timing belt


I had researched and someone said you need a b7 belt but thats way too loose. Just gotta make the y8 fit/ </TD></TR></TABLE> False, everyone always argues about this; but I just did my swap and the y7 belt with the tensioner tightened fit perfect. Also the y8 belt was way too small...I wonder if the 99-00 are different in height then the 96-98. That is the only thing I could think of pertaining to the length. GL

And OP y8 is very easy to swap...make sure to get an adj. cam gear, that is if you want power below 2,250.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89efDUSTY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> False, everyone always argues about this; but I just did my swap and the y7 belt with the tensioner tightened fit perfect. Also the y8 belt was way too small...I wonder if the 99-00 are different in height then the 96-98. That is the only thing I could think of pertaining to the length. GL

And OP y8 is very easy to swap...make sure to get an adj. cam gear, that is if you want power below 2,250. </TD></TR></TABLE>

No I'm sorry. I JUST did this swap and I tried and tried to get a y8 tensioner and y8 spring (or a6 spring) on there and it does not fit. You cannot get the tensioner bolt to go in with that tensioner on. A obo2 tensioner is not meant for an obdo block.

When I ordered my parts, I got the y8 belt from a 98 EX and I used the stock a6 tensioner and spring. Don't order a y8 tensioner, your wasting alot of money.

I have no idea how you fit a y8 tensioner on yours dusty. If I get a chance, I'll take pics at how a y8 tensioner does not fit on one of my spare a6 blocks.

 

Ok so then i will need an adjustable cam gear, good to know lol.

for now ill be using the a6 intake but do ya think it would be worth it to swap to a complete z6 or y8 intake?

and to clarify i should be using the stock a6 tensioner and a y8 timing belt correct?

also i do still have the stock exhaust in place in its entirety. so that being said based on what you guys have said i should see some difference when i change that out correct? in a few days im plannin on ordering stainless 4-2-1 headers and an N1 2.5" full stainless catback. thoughts?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HBK:CRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No I'm sorry. I JUST did this swap and I tried and tried to get a y8 tensioner and y8 spring (or a6 spring) on there and it does not fit. You cannot get the tensioner bolt to go in with that tensioner on. A obo2 tensioner is not meant for an obdo block.

When I ordered my parts, I got the y8 belt from a 98 EX and I used the stock a6 tensioner and spring. Don't order a y8 tensioner, your wasting alot of money.

I have no idea how you fit a y8 tensioner on yours dusty. If I get a chance, I'll take pics at how a y8 tensioner does not fit on one of my spare a6 blocks.</TD></TR></TABLE> sorry for the confusion, but I have an a6 block with all a6 parst "WP, tesnioner" and I am running a y8 head with a d15b7 belt. Fits perfect...the WP and tensioner were brand new from Honda

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89efDUSTY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> sorry for the confusion, but I have an a6 block with all a6 parst "WP, tesnioner" and I am running a y8 head with a d15b7 belt. Fits perfect...the WP and tensioner were brand new from Honda </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats my setup but I'm using a y8 timing belt. I went and got the b7 belt and it had a lot of slack. So I put the y8 belt on and havent had any problems.

 

man, reading all this makes me wanna do it. and i have a whole a6 motor and whole z6 motor at hand. but uh (sorry to stray away from the subject) wouldnt swapping in a6 pistons and rods into a z6 motor make the same power as the average mini-me? truthfully i just want a yes or no answer and brief explaination (if you want to).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenx619 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">man, reading all this makes me wanna do it. and i have a whole a6 motor and whole z6 motor at hand. but uh (sorry to stray away from the subject) wouldnt swapping in a6 pistons and rods into a z6 motor make the same power as the average mini-me? truthfully i just want a yes or no answer and brief explaination (if you want to).</TD></TR></TABLE>

The zeal autowerks compression calculator is down right now for me to find out. Obviously I don't see the point in that but whatever floats your boat.

The whole point of the mini me is to retain the stock block, raise your compression and gain the vtec head and better fuel maps.

 

Personally, I like the A6 block better. It's got a steel girdle, and the oiling capacity is only slightly less than that of the Z6.

Oil flow rates:

D16Y8: 35.3 qt/min at 6800RPM
D16A6: 46.4 qt/min at 6250RPM
D16Z6: 47.6 qt/min at 6250RPM

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HBK:CRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thats my setup but I'm using a y8 timing belt. I went and got the b7 belt and it had a lot of slack. So I put the y8 belt on and havent had any problems.</TD></TR></TABLE> I had a y8 belt, and I couldn't get it to fit, even with the tensioner all the way loose... scary

 

i love the zc block but i'm planning on picking up a a6 block and build it up...since i have zc/y8 do i retard my timing or advance...i believe it's retard but someone lmk....and if i drop in a 10.5 piston in the a6 then add the y8 head..what will the compression be...with the z6 head it will be 12.5 but what about the y8 head