Pictures of the finish product on page 4:

https://honda-tech.com/zero...85480

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Updated pictures of the process to produce the diffuser on page 3:


https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=3

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello,

I would like to gauge the level of interest in a carbon fiber diffuser made completely from dry carbon and baked in an autoclave under a vacuum. The diffuser will be universal and it should fit most Honda's. If you would be interested in a product like this please post so I can gauge if it will be worthwhile to produce the diffuser. Here are a few pictures of the diffuser, let me know what you think:












---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Modified by RPM at 9:19 PM 6/27/2008


Modified by RPM at 9:20 PM 6/27/2008


Modified by RPM at 5:51 AM 8/20/2008

 

nice piece. Quiet pricey.

 

great craftsmanship. i agree with it being a little on the pricey side.

 

Is it completely installed in the very last pic?

 

wow def a nice piece....i wouldnt say its pricey, def resonable for dry carbon rear diffuser.

 

I think its really a nice peice and I love the idea of it! As i am sur eyou have seen SPM and I have had alot of success with the front splitters. Cost is key and I think its about 100.00 to much, or you wont be able to generate enough activity.

Also another issue might be club racer rule books, I know in Honda Challenge its not allowed or I would buy one today I like that better then cutting holes in my bumper or cutting the bottom section of my bumper off to releave pressure. So it leaves time attacker, street car(hardly worth imo), TT guys

With all that being said I still want one!

 

You have to remember, this is a really really high quality piece. I actually have not seen any diffusers on the market that are made from pre-preg (dry carbon) carbon and baked in an autclave under a vacuum. Everything is made bucket and brush style (wet lay).

Wet lay carbon fiber products are heavy, structurally weak, and have a tendency to delaminate. If I move forward with producing this part it will not suffer from any of these issues because it will be made from pre-preg carbon fiber.




Modified by RPM at 5:54 AM 8/20/2008

 

wow, gorgeous piece, and definitely made the right way.
i'd consider buying one if I wasn't getting married this summer... darn priorities

 

I think the price reflects the quality and craftsmanship. I think its fair.

 

The only way to come in cheaper is to do one of the following:

Reduce material cost- Produce the part in fiberglass, maybe one layer of 3k carbon fiber and multiple layers of fiberglass. You'd get a cheaper part but it wouldn't be as strong as something made completely from carbon fiber.

Reduce labor cost- I can have the part shipped as is directly from the mold. This means all the flashing will still be on the part and the buyer will have to cut it off. It's not hard it just takes a little time. The part will have all of the appropriate marks so the buyer just has to follow a line with their cutter. You'd still get a high quality dry carbon piece but you will have to put in a little elbow grease before mounting it to the car.

Honestly though, $575 is a knockout price for a piece this size and done up properly. I am using aerospace grade carbon fiber and producing it using an autoclave. I can assure you that none of the other diffusers on the market nowadays use an autoclave, at least I haven't seen any. Thoughts?

 

What really makes it worth it is was it designed and tested to provide the most efficient air passage. I have no problem shelling out 600 on a piece that has been specifically tuned for my car to provide to best performance. it looks great and is made right BUT!

What have you done for testing / R&D?

 

i totally understand the price issue. I was stating what i think may be issues selling it on here. What type of data do you have to show it actually works?

is it universal or car specific? I have a Dc2-R

does the 575 include shipping?

 

A very nice piece! Beautifully made and nicely finished. Quite frankly I would say if you can produce them at that price and still make some profit - Go for it!
I would buy it, as I am well aware of the cost in money, time and effort to produce such an item. However, most of those who have replied to your post are correct. The price will probably kill it! Especially in our low budget Club Racing circle, and most of the Road Racing Series don't allow the use of Diffusers anyway.
You also have to take into account the old "Fact of Life" - Shipping. Which on such a large item usually tips it over into the "Too expensive catagory"
You have a great piece there, please do not compromise your product by trying to make it cheaper...
Remember: "The Bitterness of low quality remains long after the Sweet taste of low price is gone"
I am currently working on a C/F Rear Wing project and I found the only way to bring the cost down, and keep the quality up, is to source off shore.
Good luck with it.

Kiwi


Modified by KIWI at 8:52 AM 4/25/2008

 

Sign me up

 

Thanks for the feedback. I really don't want to go lower quality in the materials. Producing the item in high quality CF is one of the key distinguishing aspects of the product. I wanted people to know that this is really a good price and the only way to reduce the cost is to use cheaper materials. No one is really producing this stuff using "dry carbon" and an autoclave.

For those of you who don't know, here is a previous product that I produced for the ITR community:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2201291

 

carbon is like oil, the demand is greater that the supply. That ****'s always going to be expesive

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RPM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For those of you who don't know, here is a previous product that I produced for the ITR community:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2201291 </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats an awesome workshop you have!

The diffuser is awesome, Id rock one if it was legal in HC.

 

For that price I think i would just go ahead and get the the First Molding Diffuser. I really am impressed by the craftsmanship though.

 

I just looked up the first molding diffuser, it's about $950-$1,000 and no doubt it is produced bucket and brush style. It is also missing the vertical vanes in the middle which mine have. The vertical vanes do two things: keep the air strait as it moves through the diffuser and they produce a vortex as the air exits the diffuser further improving the efficiency of the diffuser.



Modified by RPM at 5:55 AM 8/20/2008

 

 

that looks sick!

can you make one off pieces by request?

 

I'd totally rock one on my CRX

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RPM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I just looked up the first molding diffuser, it's about $950-$1,000 and no doubt it is produced bucket and brush style. It is also missing the vertical vanes in the middle which mine have. The vertical vanes do two things: keep the air strait as it moves through the diffuser and they produce a vortex as the air exits the diffuser further improving the efficiency of the diffuser.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually, vertical vanes won't shed any vortices to flow that travels parallel to them. You need to have serrated edge on the back of them, sort of like a gurney flap to generate vortices (or small right angle/delta tabs).



BTW, if you do not have a degree in mech/aero engineering I wouldn't go spouting stuff off like that. There is absolutely no reason why you would want to generate a big vortex at the trailing end of a car, the main reason why an aerodynamicist would want to spawn a vortex is to keep the flow attached to a surface that would otherwise have a large amount of flow seperation. Keeping the flow attached would help reduce drag, and possibly increase downforce. But obviously, this would be useless at the tail end of a car.

In addition, your mounting method is absolutely pitiful. You are using incredibly long (3/8"? bolts). If you were generating any actual downforce with that part then it would put a large amount of load on those bolts and they would probably fail from overloading.

IMHO, your mounting method is what is the real deal breaker. You need to mount the diffuser completely flush (not with big gaping holes at the front), a good idea would be to mount it to the tie bar and seal the area ahead so absolutely no flow can go over it.

After all this is accomplished, you would need to do some extensive testing/tuning. Fortunately this would not be that difficult, you can use some of that flow paint and go for a high speed drive to see if the flow is actually staying attached. You can also use wool tufts, but that's a bit more difficult.

And, really, to be honest a diffuser is pretty worthless unless you've done a lot other aero work on the front of the car. A diffuser has to be fed an appropriate volume of air in order for it to be effective, so you would need to make completely flat panels that ensure there is no flow separation ahead of the diffuser, otherwise that $600 piece of carbon is just a showpiece.

 

could not have said it better myself. you want to create vortexes on the sides of the car; flow wil be attached to the side and not separate while hitting free air. that is what canards (to some extent) are built for. by keeping flow along the side, you block air from entering under the car and creating a high pressure area; that way, you maximize downforce and minimize lift. enough with the vortex/canard lessson though. if this were put on a real race car, those bolts you are using would snap. i recommend you mount it to the underside of the subframe (where your rear lower tie bar is) becausse the area is sealed and no flow can go through/over it. either that, or encorporate it as part of an undertray. like stated earlier, your piece, although quite nice, is nothing more than a show piece.

 

That's not entirely true...