Vtec Tuning and cold air intakes
04-05-2008, 10:58 AM
#1
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Vtec Tuning and cold air intakes
For this example I am using two h22 motors. Both of them are stock and have pretty much the same exact mods besides one having a skunk2 intake manifold and one having a EuroR intake manifold.
I found it pretty interesting when I did a cold air intake test versus a modified stock short ram intake. This graph shows a change in a fully tuned motor. On the last run I decided to put my 3" cold air/BPi flowstack on his car and just see what happened. The results were very intriguing.
Peak power did not increase much but look at ~4000 rpm!!
I had the vtec crossover for this motor at 5000 rpm. Hmmmm, what happens if you start lowering the vtec crossover towards that peak at 4000?
Well here you go:
This is the other motor. The one with the Skunk2 manifold but with my 3" cold air/BPi flowstack.
on the runs showed here, you can see the progression of the vtec crossover. Gaining more and more midrange.
So in this aspect, the intake you decide to run for your car will dramatically change where the vtec crossover needs to be. And that my friends requires tuning.
Get your damn cars tuned you filthy animals!!
I found it pretty interesting when I did a cold air intake test versus a modified stock short ram intake. This graph shows a change in a fully tuned motor. On the last run I decided to put my 3" cold air/BPi flowstack on his car and just see what happened. The results were very intriguing.
Peak power did not increase much but look at ~4000 rpm!!
I had the vtec crossover for this motor at 5000 rpm. Hmmmm, what happens if you start lowering the vtec crossover towards that peak at 4000?
Well here you go:
This is the other motor. The one with the Skunk2 manifold but with my 3" cold air/BPi flowstack.
on the runs showed here, you can see the progression of the vtec crossover. Gaining more and more midrange.
So in this aspect, the intake you decide to run for your car will dramatically change where the vtec crossover needs to be. And that my friends requires tuning.
Get your damn cars tuned you filthy animals!!
04-05-2008, 07:05 PM
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Re: Vtec Tuning and cold air intakes (98vtec)
I think you are right about tuning
Because I have changed my exhaust to tanabe smh, headers to DC Sports, intake to AEM short Ram, and I really do not see a big difference in power increase, compared to when it was stock. The car is 2002 accord V6. And in Illinois there really isn't too many tuning shops 
Because I have changed my exhaust to tanabe smh, headers to DC Sports, intake to AEM short Ram, and I really do not see a big difference in power increase, compared to when it was stock. The car is 2002 accord V6. And in Illinois there really isn't too many tuning shops
04-05-2008, 09:06 PM
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Re: Vtec Tuning and cold air intakes (98vtec)
in the first graph it shows leaning out at around 4000 rpm to almost 14:1 may be helping it to be a higher pronouced spike in tq/hp. I am assuming this was corrected after correct vtec cross over was established? Good write up to start this section off well as it can show the significance of tuning even if the car is nearly stock.
04-06-2008, 04:54 PM
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Re: Vtec Tuning and cold air intakes (arc_55)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by arc_55 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">in the first graph it shows leaning out at around 4000 rpm to almost 14:1 may be helping it to be a higher pronouced spike in tq/hp. I am assuming this was corrected after correct vtec cross over was established? Good write up to start this section off well as it can show the significance of tuning even if the car is nearly stock.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the first chart and second chart are not the same engines. The first chart was just showing what a fully tuned engine setup for a short ram would do when a cold air intake was installed. No changes were made after that run because it was my cold air intake, the short ram was put back on his car.
the first chart and second chart are not the same engines. The first chart was just showing what a fully tuned engine setup for a short ram would do when a cold air intake was installed. No changes were made after that run because it was my cold air intake, the short ram was put back on his car.
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04-08-2008, 08:33 PM
#8
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Re: vetch controller setting (pkboy)
it's VTEC. and if you dont know how to do it, let someone that knows how to tune the particular controller do it.
you didnt even mention what kind of vtec controller it was so how do you expect people to help you?
you didnt even mention what kind of vtec controller it was so how do you expect people to help you?
06-16-2008, 01:09 PM
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Re: Vtec Tuning and cold air intakes (eg6_itb)
got my car off the dyno a few weeks ago and here is the vtec crossover consensus with the h23vtec motor
06-20-2008, 06:54 AM
#13
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Re: Vtec Tuning and cold air intakes (98vtec)
I imagine that it works the same as if you where to lengthen the runners in your manifold....
long runners will move tq Lower in the rpms,
short runners will move tq higher in the rpms.
That is why one should consider the entire intake system when doing a build and not just the individual pieces. For example if someone goes out and buys and short runner intake manifold, to try and raise the tq curve, and then throws a long tube CAI on it. You would reduce the projected gains of the short runners. Although there would still be a bit better throttle response with the short runners if the throttle plate is closer to the valves.
Modified by GhostAccord at 3:09 PM 6/20/2008
long runners will move tq Lower in the rpms,
short runners will move tq higher in the rpms.
That is why one should consider the entire intake system when doing a build and not just the individual pieces. For example if someone goes out and buys and short runner intake manifold, to try and raise the tq curve, and then throws a long tube CAI on it. You would reduce the projected gains of the short runners. Although there would still be a bit better throttle response with the short runners if the throttle plate is closer to the valves.
Modified by GhostAccord at 3:09 PM 6/20/2008
06-20-2008, 09:48 AM
#14
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Re: Vtec Tuning and cold air intakes (GhostAccord)
i spent some good money coming up with the "best" intake setup for my motor.
only parts i havent tested are different sized throttle bodies. That'll come eventually i suppose.
only parts i havent tested are different sized throttle bodies. That'll come eventually i suppose.
06-20-2008, 10:19 AM
#15
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Re: Vtec Tuning and cold air intakes (98vtec)
You said it all right there. "best intake setup for my motor" It should be about what works best for your engine not what looks best or costs more. In the end it may cost you a lot to find that perfect setup or it may not. It all depends on your motor setup.
I think that the same principles will carry over to the TB sizes as well. can't wait to see your results.
I think that the same principles will carry over to the TB sizes as well. can't wait to see your results.
06-20-2008, 06:11 PM
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Re: Vtec Tuning and cold air intakes (98vtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">based on the evidence I have seen with 4 different h22 engines, yes.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the actual point of running a COLD AIR intake isnt going to be as pronouced on a Dyno where either intake is sucking hot air from around the same general area. my guess is your intake temps were about the same on either of those runs and something else caused the differences you saw.
If you want your test to be a little more valid, you are going to need to post the graphs with logs of the actual intake temps since the point of running a cold air intake is going to be that you are getting colder air.
the actual point of running a COLD AIR intake isnt going to be as pronouced on a Dyno where either intake is sucking hot air from around the same general area. my guess is your intake temps were about the same on either of those runs and something else caused the differences you saw.
If you want your test to be a little more valid, you are going to need to post the graphs with logs of the actual intake temps since the point of running a cold air intake is going to be that you are getting colder air.
06-21-2008, 04:41 AM
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Re: Vtec Tuning and cold air intakes (98vtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">theres got to be more to it than that.
tuning the intake resonance comes to mind. </TD></TR></TABLE>
No doubt...but how many of these Cold Air companies do you think are actually tuning resonance frequencies
tuning the intake resonance comes to mind.
</TD></TR></TABLE>No doubt...but how many of these Cold Air companies do you think are actually tuning resonance frequencies
09-12-2008, 08:09 PM
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Re: Vtec Tuning and cold air intakes (GhostAccord)
it doesn't seem to me a shortram or cai intake tubing would make much difference in torque characteristics, although if intake air temp is different between the two, the CAI would make more power throughout the engine operating rpm range.
After the tb (or carb in old engines) that's where I think plenum volume, and runner length become a concern, as does the intake port characteristics in the cylinder head- large ports help flow, but reduce intake velocity (torque) and vice versa... too small though will kill any power altogether of course.
After the tb (or carb in old engines) that's where I think plenum volume, and runner length become a concern, as does the intake port characteristics in the cylinder head- large ports help flow, but reduce intake velocity (torque) and vice versa... too small though will kill any power altogether of course.
09-17-2008, 01:12 AM
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Re: Vtec Tuning and cold air intakes (ChevelleSSLS6)
[QUOTE=ChevelleSSLS6]it doesn't seem to me a shortram or cai intake tubing would make much difference in torque characteristics, although if intake air temp is different between the two, the CAI would make more power throughout the engine operating rpm range.QUOTE]
The temputures from a CAI and SRI are almost the same once the car is moving. The term "cold air" is just a marketing thing to sell products. The reason for the mid-range torque gain is due to the length of the intake pipe; resonance tuning.
The temputures from a CAI and SRI are almost the same once the car is moving. The term "cold air" is just a marketing thing to sell products. The reason for the mid-range torque gain is due to the length of the intake pipe; resonance tuning.
09-17-2008, 04:20 AM
#23
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Re: Vtec Tuning and cold air intakes (HdeucedeuceA)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HdeucedeuceA »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">[QUOTE=ChevelleSSLS6]it doesn't seem to me a shortram or cai intake tubing would make much difference in torque characteristics, although if intake air temp is different between the two, the CAI would make more power throughout the engine operating rpm range.QUOTE]
The temputures from a CAI and SRI are almost the same once the car is moving. The term "cold air" is just a marketing thing to sell products. The reason for the mid-range torque gain is due to the length of the intake pipe; resonance tuning.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i've logged 20* differences in intake temps.
The temputures from a CAI and SRI are almost the same once the car is moving. The term "cold air" is just a marketing thing to sell products. The reason for the mid-range torque gain is due to the length of the intake pipe; resonance tuning.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i've logged 20* differences in intake temps.
09-17-2008, 01:30 PM
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Re: Vtec Tuning and cold air intakes (98vtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i've logged 20* differences in intake temps.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Someone logged like a 2-4* in there civic. Of course that was a civic not a prelude. I would look for the thread but I don't even remember what forum it was on.
i've logged 20* differences in intake temps.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Someone logged like a 2-4* in there civic. Of course that was a civic not a prelude. I would look for the thread but I don't even remember what forum it was on.
09-19-2008, 05:16 AM
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Re: Vtec Tuning and cold air intakes (HdeucedeuceA)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ChevelleSSLS6 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The temputures from a CAI and SRI are almost the same once the car is moving. The term "cold air" is just a marketing thing to sell products. The reason for the mid-range torque gain is due to the length of the intake pipe; resonance tuning.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's true. Air temp is overrated when talking about one intake and another. The most important factors are intake tubing length and diameter. On some intakes (V2), AEM revised their design to make them more like short rams. Even though they're drawing in under-hood air, they make more power.
The only company I know of that is seriously pursuing resonance valve tuning is AEM more so with their V2. They actually took advantage of the primary AND secondary pulse waves to give you two peak efficiency points. In other words, more area beneath the total curve.
The temputures from a CAI and SRI are almost the same once the car is moving. The term "cold air" is just a marketing thing to sell products. The reason for the mid-range torque gain is due to the length of the intake pipe; resonance tuning.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's true. Air temp is overrated when talking about one intake and another. The most important factors are intake tubing length and diameter. On some intakes (V2), AEM revised their design to make them more like short rams. Even though they're drawing in under-hood air, they make more power.
The only company I know of that is seriously pursuing resonance valve tuning is AEM more so with their V2. They actually took advantage of the primary AND secondary pulse waves to give you two peak efficiency points. In other words, more area beneath the total curve.