Help a brother out. I have a friend who is in the market to buy either a civic si or a mazdaspeed 3. The mazda has 265 or so hp and the civic si has about 200 hp. He would like to stay honda (his DD is a sweet accord) but its hard to deny the hp that mazda is selling right out of the box. I understand the price for both cars is about the same.

What I need help with is what can I tell him about the new civics that will sway him to buy the honda? Is there a "standard" setup you guys have been doing to get the civic to run with the mazda? Is his only option to turbo the thing? He needs as many ideas from you guys that he can get. Recent reviews even have the car guys giving the nod to mazda. What can us honda guys do to even the playing field out?

Help!!!!!

 

The mazda is nice but it dosent look as good as the SI and the reliability isn't as good i don't care if it has 265 hp or not i wouldn't trade my SI for it. If i were you tell him to test drive both for ride quality and etc we already know it would smoke an SI stock so does he want alot of power with questionable reliability or a 8,000rpm screamer with alot of potential and no questionable reliability for me it was an easy choice !


Modified by WILD_WILL at 6:07 PM 12/5/2006

 

Reliability, handling, styling > Horsepower

 

What he said !

 

Good stuff guys........ these are the same type of things I have been telling him but he wants to hear from owners of the new civic.

Keep the comments coming.

 

Well.. I prefer Hondas.. But it sucks that the Si has only 200hp

 

Civic LX

 

Hey...keep things in perspective.

I remember 8 years ago if you wanted ~200hp in a compact sport from Honda your option was the ITR. Oh yeah and only the coupe, very limited availability and no a/c--it definitely couldn't be a daily driver and you would definitely pay a premium to the dealership to own one.

200hp is > most Corvette model years in the 70s, so things are getting better all the time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RiceNBeans &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey...keep things in perspective.

I remember 8 years ago if you wanted ~200hp in a compact sport from Honda your option was the ITR. Oh yeah and only the coupe, very limited availability and no a/c--it definitely couldn't be a daily driver and you would definitely pay a premium to the dealership to own one.

200hp is &gt; most Corvette model years in the 70s, so things are getting better all the time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

ITR is a hatchback and AC was avaliable.

 

A/C only available on the ITR model years 2000 & 2001. Not 1998 & prior..

 

As far as I know AC was avaliable as an accessory/option on all year ITRs. but this has nothing to do with an FG2 VS Mazdaspeed so i'll just assume youre right

 

Civic Si, AINEC (And its not even close)

 

People just dont understand something... the Si is 200HP NA!!! slap a turbo on it and this thing screams like a beast from hell... (ALL JAP CARS!!!)

The mazda may have power out of the box, but i bet its limitations are far lower than the K series motors, also....

Honda resale 5 years later ....

Mazda resale 5 years later.... need i say more?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sier &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well.. I prefer Hondas.. But it sucks that the Si has only 200hp </TD></TR></TABLE> the si has 200hp naturally aspirated everything els has a turbo....most car makers cant even get close 2 the 200hp mark without forced induction....doesnt that say something?

 

Very true. Plus for the long haul turbos are a pain in the ****. They add an extra level of complexity and wear & tear on the engine, guaranteeing you aren't going to get much more than 150k out of the engine..probably less. And they are a a frequent source of problems when it comes to engine breakdown. Basically its like feeding pollutants back into the engine to get a few extra hp...not worth it for daily drivers that you intend to keep a long time.


Modified by RiceNBeans at 5:41 AM 12/6/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Demonis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Honda resale 5 years later ....

Mazda resale 5 years later.... need i say more?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yup

check a 00 civic si vs a mazdaspeed protege

 

I believe the Mazdaspeed 3 is heavier. It does have more HP and torque, but that really doesn't matter if your car is heavier than the underpowered car (if it is light). It may be faster on a straightaway, but through curves it will be slower.

 

the 3 has no sunroof option, it's standard on the si. that should end the decision immediately

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RiceNBeans &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A/C only available on the ITR model years 2000 & 2001. Not 1998 & prior..</TD></TR></TABLE>

wrong, AC was an OPTION in 97/98

i just took it out of my 98, wanna see pics?

 

Also not a fan of the tabletop HP/TQ curves on the MS3 at all. No power down low, and declining power up high. It'll all mid range (what, 3k to 5.5k? http://www.automobilemag.com/f....html). I'd imagine that would feel like a very small rollercoaster ride; a little build up, a big hill, then a short letdown.

Yeah, the Si has some weaksauce TQ numbers (http://www.automobilemag.com/f....html), but the power band is straight up fun. With basic bolt-ons (I/E) it bumps your Si up quite a bit in the fun factor.

If modding is what he wants to do, then the Si is going to be the BEST base platform to start at.

 

I've been debating which one to get as my next vehicle and I keep leaning more and more towards the MS3.

Looks dept the Si wins(but not by much), but IMO that's it. Handling, blah I think the ms3 can hold its own against the Si. I mean if this is your DD its not like its gonna matter too much unless you are gonna drive like a jackass everywhere you go.

Power wise the MS3 owns the Si. Yeah people say well put on bolt ons to the Si but if you do the same to the MS3, the Si falls behind again. About the power curve, well I don't see much of a difference, they are both gonna be weak in the lower RPMs since one has no torque what so ever and the other has to wait till the turbo spools.

Reliability is of concern for me though so the Si does win that battle. The Si will go 200,000 miles easily with regular maintenance while i'm unsure if the MS3 will be problem free after (or even make it) to 100,000 miles.

And the biggest reason why I'm leaning towards the MS3 is PRICE. IMO you get more for your money from the MS3. I like the fact that the MS3 comes with more than enough power for DD and having the 5-door hatch is great because of the space.

Of course this is just my opinion so please don't take this as if I am hating on the Si because I have been a long time fan of hondas. Its just that the MS3 appeals to me more *shrugs*

 

The mazda 3 is a great package overall but it comes down to this do you want all that mid range power with a lackluster redline or do you want a sick powerband that revs to the moon your choice !

 

get the MS3. The delay throttle response, rev hang, rattles will lean you towards the MS3 anyway.

 

I get no rattles only gay dbw !

 

Mazda still has problems getting the 3's A/C to work right, so imagine the fun of doing the testing of their engines and drivelines for them on your dime?

Back a few years ago, Mazda was running the Protege with a turbo in the WorldChallenge touring car series, Car and Driver did an article focused mainly on the RSX and ITR, with a blurb here and there about BMW and the Protege turbo, noting the Protege needed TWO engines per season as opposed to everyone else's ONE per season, the engines being only lightly modified in this series. I can't say this is a direct indicator of reliability, but I found it telling and back when I was considering a 3, I was more than sure the MS3 would not be in my future because of it, never mind my concern over the transmission handling the power.