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H23VTEC Turbo build with tech by ludesleep

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Old Jul 26, 2006 | 07:14 PM
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Default H23VTEC Turbo build with tech by ludesleep

Well first off I wanna give a shout out to Satan, Firedrake, Boostless97lude and BEER30 especially for helping me build it and watching my back

<U>Head=h22a</U>
SuperTech valve train
custom valve job
custom port and chamber
Golden Eagle cam gears
Custom Intake mani
1000cc injectors Delfi
Golden Eagle Rail
Stock Cams
Roller Rocker "coming soon"
<U>Block=H23a</U>
Golden Eagle sleeved
89mm bore
custom race hone by me
Endyn rollerwave pistons
Crower rods
Arp studs top and bottom, oil pan, flywheel
Golden Eagle sandwich
Moroso Pan

<U>Turbo Stuff</U>
Precision Pt-61
Aeromotive fuel
Lovefab SST
JGS 44mm wg
Tial bov
Intercooler
Neptune RTP

**Things I plan to fab myself or have already done so**
Solid aluminum 6061 motor mounts 30%
Vacuum manifold 100% complete
Traction bar 0%


Lots more to see in pics
I started this build three years ago and it just now coming to an end. I decided to go with a stationary engine(89mm bore 95mm stroke) which is a under-square piston-to-stroke configuration, meaning that the piston's diameter is smaller than the length of its stroke. Stationary engine produce generous amounts of low speed torque because of the long stroke. Remember Archimedes and his lever? Acrhimedes stated, "Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I will move the world" These engine are a good illustration of that lever's power.
Station ary engine have specific power output requirements because they are designed to run at a steady state, or within a defined rpm range.



Many shops have their "hone job"....I have mine. Many people over look the importance of a good hone. Having a good plateau finish is the key to every race hone. A plateau finish is essentially one where the tops of the peaks have been shaved off hence the "plateau" to provide a better surface for the rings. It has a controlled amount of texture remaining from both a course and fine grit honing process. Such a bore finish is equivalent to a broken in cylinder where the rough peaks, folded and torn metal left by conventional honing techniques have been shaved off by the rings, leaving a plateau like surface that provides adequate bearing area, yet retains its crosshatch for proper oil control and lubrication. This reduces ring wear when the engine is started for the first time, and allows the rings to seat within a few minutes. The result is longer ring and cylinder life, reduced blow-by and better oil control.
What Im about to tell you will solve the big mystery of "Is there really a such thing as a break in period" YES.....AND NO! Most shops try to stick by the Honda OEM hone which is basically for longer life. Honda uses a a very rough hone at finish that develop a plateau finish on its own as the rings scrub off the peaks left on the wall by honing. This ends up leaving alot of debris in the oil that can cause wear elsewhere in the engine. What's more, it wears the rings and cylinder unnecessarily. Almost all piston rings today come prelapped from the factory. Consequently, they do not have to scrub away at the cylinder bores to wear off the rough edges in order to create a gas tight seal between the combustion chamber and crankcase. The rings are essentially preseated and do not require a rough cylinder bore finish. In fact, a rough cylinder bore can be very detrimental to a new set of rings. If the surface finish is too rough, the rings will scuff and wear, giving a poor seal, resulting in reduced service life and high oil consumption. So why not produce the plateau finish in the beginning by using a special honing procedure that produces a prebroken in cylinder?





Improperly fitted bearings caused by runout in the connecting rod bores can cause recognizable failure itself. Problems can range from oil starvation and subsequent scoring of the cylinder walls, piston and rings, to excess oil throw off , leading to severe oil consumption of the engine. The connecting rod bores must be straight and square, onsize, maintain correct distance between each rod. To maintain all of these prerequisites, bearing housing and pin bores are reconditioned by boring or honing, or a combination of the two.



Next I wanna talk about align-honing and the importance of this process. I read on honda-tech and hear it alot that this process isn't that critical...well the truth is it is very crucial and is one of the most important considerations to make. I think alot of times people are confusing align-boring with the alighone process. The align-honing process is very different than the align-boring method because the housing bores are honed round and true with a mandrel, instead of bored to size with a tool bit which is normally only performed when new main caps are installed or spun main bearing repair. If the procedure is not performed it will lead to scuffed pistons, ineffective ring to cylinder wall sealing, cylinder head to block alignment, and uneven compression rations from one end to the block to the other. Imagine the rod trying to force its way along a straight path in the cylinder only to be pushed off center because the bore is not ninety degrees to the crank. Now.....some will say "I didn't align-hone my motor and it still runs great" and of course I would have to agree. At the same time I've seen and built alot of ....****...that will run. All motors are fighting the same battle "friction" and while your motor is over there running making your power...mine is over here one step ahead making more efficient power with a longer life.




****update****

Ok some of you have asked if I would share some info about my choice in Endyns pistons. For one I am a strong believer in the theory behind them and so does the other 90% of the industry...its been proven. The one thing thats very interesting about the piston is its shape. When at TDC it forms the same kidney shaped chamber that you can in the SBC. These very efficient chambers that make very efficient power.
These pistons are basically your 89mm(3.504) Endyn Roller Wave. Endyn for some reason doesnt list the dome/dishcc for any of the Hseries pistons. All they list is compression height. I called Larry and informed me that the pistons had a -10.2 dish volume.

So now we wanna find out what our true compression will be. We know that

CR=V1+v2+v3+v4+v5/V2+v3+v4+v5

V1(Swept volume)=Bore^2xStroke x .7854 x 16.39
V2(Chamber volume)=given or measured
V3(Head Gasket)=Bore^2 x compressed thickness x .7854 x 16.39
V4(deck)=Bore^2 x Deck x .7854 x 16.39
V5=valve relief cc dish or dome

Notice anything we don't have ?? Yes ..your deck! To find our deck we wanna use DH=S/.500+RL+CH+D, were as DH=Deck Height, S=Stroke, RL=Rod Length, CH=Compression Height, and D=Deck. So..

DH=8.643
S=3.740
CH=1.218
RL=5.580

DH=3.740/.5+5.580+1.218 which gives you 8.643-8.668=.025....Deck=-.025

Now that we have everything we need lets find our compression!

V1=3.504^2 x 3.740 x .7854 x16.39----**591.112cc**
V2=**53.8cc**
V3=3.504^2 x .030(gasket) x .7854 x 16.39---**4.742cc**
V4=3.504^2 x -.025(deck) x .7854 x 16.39---**-3.951**
V5=10.2

so 591+53.8+4.742+(-3.951)+10.2 / 53.8+4.742+(-3.951)+10.2=10.123CR



Update2/4/07

I had some time left at the end of the day on Fri and started and finished a project that needed to be done. For those who don't know what this is..it a block off plate for people who want to eliminate their balance shaft pump completely. Most people just pull the belt off but I wanted the weight out and off the motor.

Here is what the oil pump originally looks like(notice the plugs already installed from the shaft removal)


Here is the pump with the balance shaft oil pump installed(shaft and gear are already pressed out)


Now I first started off with a 4.000x4.000x.500 plate of 6061 aluminum. Both sides were fly-cut for machined surfaces for better seal. I then clamped the pump to the plate and scribed my line all the way around and transferred my clearance holes. Once holes were drilled I placed my plate onto the Bridgeport and got as close as possible to my scribe line. Next I bolted both parts together so I could use my grinder the clean up and blend in the sides of the plate with the original parts flange.




Finished product Total time 45mins




update 3/11/07 Valve spring compressor


the socket I used was a cheap 13/16 to be exact. I milled a portion of the side walls away...here is final product.







JGS Precision 44mm wastegate






update 6/5/07







Modified by ludesleep at 3:24 AM 7/31/2007

Last edited by ludesleep; Jun 10, 2009 at 10:37 AM.
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Old Jul 26, 2006 | 08:05 PM
  #2  
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Default Re: H23VTEC Turbo build with tech by ludesleep (ludesleep)

dang..I will post more tomorrow. Some people work for a living
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Old Jul 26, 2006 | 08:49 PM
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Way to put up a good post in here again finally. Nice change from what we've been seeing a lot of lately. Good luck on the build and keep us posted.

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Old Jul 26, 2006 | 09:13 PM
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Default Re: (Ludebehavior85)

that kind of talk from an Aggie??? now that's rare.....

HOOK 'EM HORNS!!!

But seriously, that looks like a really nice build you've got going.
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Old Jul 26, 2006 | 11:30 PM
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Default Re: (ChrisRicketts)

Impressive man, way to do things right. Are you doing the machine work yourself?
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Old Jul 27, 2006 | 03:29 AM
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Default Re: (Rosko)

yes
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Old Jul 27, 2006 | 05:18 AM
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Default Re: H23VTEC Turbo build with tech by ludesleep (ludesleep)

looking good, def some good tech material in this , hehe so tell me more about your pistons.. they are obviously not dome or dish, what cc do the valve reliefs take out.. those are endyn right? mor einfo please/./
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Old Jul 27, 2006 | 12:53 PM
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I think they're dome, look right near the cylinder walls, right at the top of the picture. You can see a massive dome forming....lol. You can also see the slant where the cuts for the valves are.
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Old Aug 9, 2006 | 05:52 AM
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Default Re: (ludesleep)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ludesleep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im gonna be updating tonight</TD></TR></TABLE>

you better be, and i want forme info on the pistons!!
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Old Aug 9, 2006 | 06:21 AM
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Default Re: H23VTEC Turbo build with tech by ludesleep (ludesleep)

mad prop's... keep us updated :D
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Old Aug 13, 2006 | 11:16 AM
  #11  
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Default Re: H23VTEC Turbo build with tech by ludesleep (ludesleep)

Ok i posted a little bit of an update...I will post later on tonight on the endyn pistons and why I feel they are the best out there for my setup
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Old Aug 14, 2006 | 06:56 AM
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Default Re: H23VTEC Turbo build with tech by ludesleep (ludesleep)

so when honing a block how does one get a "good plateau finish" is it a 2 step hone ? a diferent stone? rpm? details please..
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Old Aug 14, 2006 | 07:10 AM
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Default Re: H23VTEC Turbo build with tech by ludesleep (ludesleep)

Looks like a happy piston!



Thanks for posting up all of this good info.
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Old Aug 14, 2006 | 06:13 PM
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Default Re: H23VTEC Turbo build with tech by ludesleep (prelittlelude)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prelittlelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so when honing a block how does one get a "good plateau finish" is it a 2 step hone ? a different stone? rpm? details please.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well its a three step..I don't wanna give it away but I will let you know its a very rough stone on step one...your second stone is very close to a oem honda hone and you bump a very very fine stone through to finish up.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hawkze_2.3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Looks like a happy piston!
Thanks for posting up all of this good info. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks man you should have come over and watch me put it together!! anyways man nice write up on the sleeper gage setup..your gonna have to come over and help me do that soon
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Old Aug 14, 2006 | 09:46 PM
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Default Re: H23VTEC Turbo build with tech by ludesleep (ludesleep)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ludesleep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks man you should have come over and watch me put it together!! anyways man nice write up on the sleeper gage setup..your gonna have to come over and help me do that soon </TD></TR></TABLE>

Man, I wish i knew when you were doing it...I would have been there
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Old Aug 15, 2006 | 10:21 AM
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Default Re: H23VTEC Turbo build with tech by ludesleep (Hawkze_2.3)

Looks great

How did you become such a good
engine builder/machinist?
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Old Aug 15, 2006 | 11:23 AM
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Default Re: H23VTEC Turbo build with tech by ludesleep (SKDRCR)

I'm not sure if you did this or not, but what is all involved with changing valve guides? Not so much getting them in and out of the head but boring/reaming/honing them to size. Not sure what type of hone would be able to get in there.

I built myself a fixture to cut my valve seats in the cnc, and if I ever do another one I would like to try to put new guides in them...
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Old Aug 15, 2006 | 08:11 PM
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Default Re: H23VTEC Turbo build with tech by ludesleep (Rosko)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SKDRCR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Looks great

How did you become such a good
engine builder/machinist?</TD></TR></TABLE> Lots of school, trial and error . My father was a machinist as well

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rosko &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm not sure if you did this or not, but what is all involved with changing valve guides? Not so much getting them in and out of the head but boring/reaming/honing them to size. Not sure what type of hone would be able to get in there.

I built myself a fixture to cut my valve seats in the cnc, and if I ever do another one I would like to try to put new guides in them...</TD></TR></TABLE>
The trick is getting your guides out without pulling aluminum out with them. I usually heat the head up after i have bored out my guide, then I cut the rest out. You typically do not bore unless you have over sized valve stems. I run a reamer that's .001 under and then hone to size. All of this can be done on a valve guide bench.
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Old Aug 15, 2006 | 08:50 PM
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Default Re: H23VTEC Turbo build with tech by ludesleep (ludesleep)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ludesleep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The trick is getting your guides out without pulling aluminum out with them. I usually heat the head up after i have bored out my guide, then I cut the rest out. You typically do not bore unless you have over sized valve stems. I run a reamer that's .001 under and then hone to size. All of this can be done on a valve guide bench.</TD></TR></TABLE>

cool, thanks for the insight. if its not too much trouble could you take a pic of the valve guide bench? I wouldnt mind seein what one looks like. I'm guessing its not the same machine seats are cut on right?
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Old Aug 15, 2006 | 08:51 PM
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Default Re: H23VTEC Turbo build with tech by ludesleep (Rosko)

no thats a guide and seat machine
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Old Aug 16, 2006 | 07:23 AM
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Default Re: H23VTEC Turbo build with tech by ludesleep (ludesleep)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ludesleep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I don't wanna give it away... </TD></TR></TABLE>
aww thats no help
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Old Aug 22, 2006 | 12:23 PM
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Default Re: H23VTEC Turbo build with tech by ludesleep (Rosko)



Thats the valve guide honing bench.



This is the hone drive unit. It is powered by a drill and uses centrifigal force to keep the hone against the valve guide.
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Old Nov 6, 2006 | 07:13 PM
  #23  
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Default Re: H23VTEC Turbo build with tech by ludesleep (BEER30)

ok I did a small update
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Old Nov 7, 2006 | 04:22 PM
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quick question thats kinda off topic but id thought id ask. If you have a smaller bore, say 87/88mm, and you wanted to go to a higher bore like an 89mm, would you have to buy new pistons?

And a question that actually has something to do with the topic. With a 95mm stroke, how high do you plan on revving?
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Old Nov 7, 2006 | 07:16 PM
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Default Re: (Mr.Hankey)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.Hankey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">quick question thats kinda off topic but id thought id ask. If you have a smaller bore, say 87/88mm, and you wanted to go to a higher bore like an 89mm, would you have to buy new pistons?

And a question that actually has something to do with the topic. With a 95mm stroke, how high do you plan on revving?</TD></TR></TABLE>

1st question answer is yes....but it is possible to run without boring but not for any application you are probably running. I think people would **** their pants if they seen what piston to wall clearances cup cars run. You can almost turn the piston sideways in the cylinder.

2nd question I plan to rev this motor 8-8,500
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