I was recently a part of a B vs K series shootout with Sport Compact Car magazine. (sept 2006 issue) For those that dont know...or have no read it yet...it was a budget based ( similar end cost) of a B series vs K series swap in civic eg chassis. The B series ( my car) was a 1993 civic si while the K series was rocked in a CX trim EG.
The test was great...
200 ft skid pad
figure 8
and 1/4 mile acceleration

both cars made the same WHP of 205 but the K series put down 144WTQ vs the 138WTQ of the B series.
quick mod list of both cars...
B series 81.5mm x 87.2
11.5 compression
bolt ons, pnp head, hondata
full sus
semi stripped
4.785 w LSD

K series-K20A2
I, R crew header, E, hondata, PIMP
full sus
semi stripped
RSX 6 speed

results-
B series K series
lateral G's -.92- -.90-
200ft fig 8 -25.63 sec- -25.77 sec-
1/4 mile -13.9@102- -14.3@100-

yes i know the 1/4 times are slower than what your used to...but here is some explanation of the conditions...
first off it was over 100 degrees that day, we raced on a "track" which was a straight peice of pavement long enough to do the test (was not performed on a real drag strip) on the big oval of the nascar track @ fontana, Street tires, 36psi all around. All of these conditions resulted in a 2.6 60ft which was the BEST 60ft of the day.

B vs K....does this article solve or settle anything? prolly not =P
here are some pics...

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1693232

thanks


Modified by Viorent Grip! EG at 6:59 PM 7/18/2006

 

You forgot to mention you have LSD.

 

Yeah for B series!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SuperTwinz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You forgot to mention you have LSD.</TD></TR></TABLE>
noted....

 

Settle what?

It's a useless article from a useless magazine...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JV &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Settle what?

It's a useless article from a useless magazine... </TD></TR></TABLE>



alot of people around this forum have tried to compare not only the potentials of the K vs B motors but the realistic comparison of performance vs dollar...more so for the budgeted builders out there without tons of cash.
this might be able to shed some light for those individuals who are searching for it.

Useless comments.....take it somewhere else...

 

to my understanding a valid comparison is to modify each engine and vehicle in as close to the same as possible...

ie. if you port the head of a b-series by say 2mm.. the point of the comparison is to do the same to the competiting engine.. bore the k-series 2mm..

why? it is not whether is will run faster in a certain chassis..(just because the two motors put out similar "PEAK" numbers) It is the power potential/differences with those similar modifications

that is the MAIN arguement between the 2 engines.. is what can and will make more power with the same internal mods and same overall characteristics done to each motor...

and we all know the k-series will dominate a b-series

so reading everything about YOUR (SCC mag) comparison it has some differences in regards to each engines mods..
its not the 1/4 time that everyone is worried about.. its OVERALL less work/money to make more power and torque with a K-series
that is the arguement

 

B is BEST!!!!

 

here is the question.

everybody knows comparing a b18 to a k20 is stupid. everybody also knows that the k20 head flows so much more than a b18 head.

now, what i want to know is the difference between a 2L B with the same head flow as a stock k20. this should make things a bit more equal.

 

^^ true story.. i totally agree with you.. that it would make an engine comparison equal..

BUT..

take (what i said in my previous post) into consideration.. the cost effectiveness of each motor..

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4genaccordfreak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
its not the 1/4 time that everyone is worried about.. its OVERALL less work/money to make more power and torque with a K-series
that is the arguement</TD></TR></TABLE>

not alot of ppl know that a b-series can be ported to the utter brim and still only be close if not barely able to reach the stock port size of a k-series..

anyone can dump 10g's into a b-motor and make it run rediculous #'s..
dump 10g's into a k-motor.. and research/testing and comparisons have so far proved that a k-series will and does put the older b's to shame!

 

for the comparison..

obviously a K will dominate a B....

theres nothing wrong with this thread at all though....

if you have the time and money for a K then go at it...if you dont then a B will do just fine...big fucken deal...

 

i'm all for a fair comparison...
an equally modified k series vs b series would be dominated by the K series IMO

however this is a cost vs cost comparison with both cars having a generally close cost of the aftermarket parts....

something to note

b series SI chassis vs K series CX chassis
lsd vs no lsd

i also understand that the 1/4 mile is not everthing to everyone. however it is a measuring tool of acceleration. THe skidpad shows the handling aspect....while the figure 8 road course shows a good scale of handling and accleration. I think the tests are very valid....

 

Should have swapped over a b20 bottom w/ pistons to smash the K

 

I think its an interesting comparison.

I understand that they were doing it as a budget thing, not a part for part thing. Obviously b vs k part for part build the k will win, no surprise there.

The point is to show what will perform better on a limited budget. And on whatever the budget here was, the b performed slightly better.

Of course if u continue to build both the k will own the b. But on a limited budget the b performed better because he was able to do more mods since the b is much cheaper to swap in.

Although I dont totally agree with all parts of this comparison, like the fact that the b car is heavier, & the b car has lsd, & we don't know if they have identical suspension setups. But i understand the comparison, its interesting.

 

i think the best and most usuable comparison would have been an overall cost comparison.

say the minimal amount of money it cost to do a k swap


lets say 7000 for everything (k swap)


then let the b series engine be up to a 7000 build

(doing whatever you can to make power)


at the end its really a matter of preference as to how you want to spend your money...

for some guys they can make miracles on a b motor with 7 grand

for others a k is a great option....

 

yea but you gotta think the B series ran this on a built motor... the k is pretty much stock which means itll last longer and be able to get way more out of it

 

you would need to do a comparison based on budget and longevity/reliability to make any sort of point. Sure you can dump $7000 into a B-series and push out lots of power but how long is it gonna last compared to a relatively stock K-series

Another thing to think about is how easy it is to get ahold of B-series parts, im sure if someone was to spend alot of time searching they could put a K24/K20 hybrid and drop it into a car for around the same as a swapped b-series and the hp gap would be minimal imo.

 

how much money are you into your b-series?
great comparison IMO.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by strsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think its an interesting comparison.

I understand that they were doing it as a budget thing, not a part for part thing. Obviously b vs k part for part build the k will win, no surprise there.

The point is to show what will perform better on a limited budget. And on whatever the budget here was, the b performed slightly better.

Of course if u continue to build both the k will own the b. But on a limited budget the b performed better because he was able to do more mods since the b is much cheaper to swap in.

Although I dont totally agree with all parts of this comparison, like the fact that the b car is heavier, & the b car has lsd, & we don't know if they have identical suspension setups. But i understand the comparison, its interesting.</TD></TR></TABLE>

from that perspective....interesting!

 

Plain n simple if your on a Budget get a B.

 

i think of it this way.

i know the recipe to reach 250whp+ on a 2L b series. you just need money but youll reach it.

since i already have the best B engine, i doubt ill spend money to convert to K. i can spend that money to surpass the k and be like a david vs goliath battle. to me, if a b can beat a k, the b deserves so much more respect.

but like i said before, power is **** if you cant stick to the ground. its just how a 400whp b16 can run 10s while those 2L b need couple hundred more to run that time. power isnt everything on a honda

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EG type GTR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think of it this way.

i know the recipe to reach 250whp+ on a 2L b series. you just need money but youll reach it.

since i already have the best B engine, i doubt ill spend money to convert to K. i can spend that money to surpass the k and be like a david vs goliath battle. to me, if a b can beat a k, the b deserves so much more respect.

but like i said before, power is **** if you cant stick to the ground. its just how a 400whp b16 can run 10s while those 2L b need couple hundred more to run that time. power isnt everything on a honda</TD></TR></TABLE>Amen...

 

this is going to be an ongoing debate if you look at it from this dumbasses perspective.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EZ$$EF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yea but you gotta think the B series ran this on a built motor... the k is pretty much stock which means itll last longer and be able to get way more out of it</TD></TR></TABLE>

that could have been a stock ITR bottom end with milled head to achieve those compression #s. the B motor still doesnt have as much displacement as that K motor did. go contact tom (Tbone) about the longevity of his motor and tell me or anyone else that a built motor wont/cant last long.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Supernatural &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think the best and most usuable comparison would have been an overall cost comparison.

say the minimal amount of money it cost to do a k swap


lets say 7000 for everything (k swap)


then let the b series engine be up to a 7000 build

(doing whatever you can to make power)


at the end its really a matter of preference as to how you want to spend your money...

for some guys they can make miracles on a b motor with 7 grand

for others a k is a great option....</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree with tran

 

That's pretty cool, just taking in performance/dollar. I liked it.

 

It is indeed an interesting comparison. Some comments:

-a stock k20a2 with stock cams and K pro can make more power than 205 on a dynojet. The tuner pretty much run the base map because that is what we get from stock k20a2 on base maps. There is another 5-15 whp on that K , in my opinion.

-Since money was the big factor on keeping the K stock and building the B, they could have put together a k24a/k20a2 frank for less.

-A K vs B with same compression and forged pistons on both motors, would yield a difference of at least 50+ whp. Have seen that too many times, so I believe it.

Overall, I think it is a good attempt to proove that the B is nowhere close to dead. It is going to be around for a long time, and importers as well as the aftermarket B series part suppliers will keep selling parts to innocent B series bystandards trying to justify vs the high cost of a K series car. All that makes sense to me, until a B series "guy" gets to drive a properly swapped and tuned K eg/ek/dc2/crx.. then it is another story and that is why hasport and hybrid racing's phone has been ringing every day concerning K series swaps.

Compare a b18c5 with a k20a type r.. right there, there is a good 40-50 whp you need to account for, not to mention the 6 speed and increased torque.

I am looking forward in reading the article though, thanks for sharing.