My wife has had her 95 Accord Wagon for about 6 months now, but hasn't used her air conditioning much until recently. Last week we were on vacation at the beach when the air started acting up.

When the compressor is running, there is a very audible whine that corresponds with engine speed. I know it's the compressor because as soon as you hit the a/c button to turn it off, the noise stops. This was pretty annoying, but the air was still working fine otherwise. The third day we were down there, we were in the drive thru at Chick-fil-a when the compressor started kicking out. Your could feel it kick on, but then it would kick right back off after a few seconds. After it started kicking off, each time it would cut back on, it would cut back on real rough, like it was about to stall the engine. Along with the kicking off, there was a strange noise that I swear was coming from the rear of the vehicle. Af first I thought I was crazy because what does the a/c have to do with something in the rear of the car, but it was. Is there some sort of relay for the a/c back there, or is there comethign on the same circuit as the a/c back there?

When I got back home, I got a chance to look at the car, and I couldn't get it to do it again. It was a good bit cooler that evening, however. It was upper 80's at the beach around lunch time, but when I was looking at the car, it was in the evening, and much cooler. Could have the higher temperature made the pressure in the system higher? High enough to make the compressor cut off?

Anyone have any ideas? The car is going to be checked out on Friday, but I wanted to maybe have some opinions beforehand.

Thanks,

Mike


Modified by slowexcoupe at 2:06 PM 6/16/2006

 

it could be a failing compressor, failing compressor clutch, or perhaps a bad expansion valve.
you wont know much til gauges are on it.

 

this probably wont be the problem but you may have the inlet and outlet of the compressor blocked or partly blocked, i have seen this before when the a/c hasn't been used for a long time. if its partly blocked then the compressor fluid wont be cycling and thus "chocking" the compressor

 

So, I took it to the shop on Friday. Right away they noticed the condenser fan wasn't coming on like it was supposed to. The mechanic said he could "jump start it" with his screwdriver and it would run. He said he would need to replace the motor in the condenser fan. He also said my radiator fan was running very weak, causing the condenser fan to work overtime. He said it would be $415 to replace both fan motors. I told him thanks and paid my $25, thinking I would go home and do it myself.

I got home and did some checking. When I hooked up the condenser fan straight to the battery, it came on like it was supposed to. After following the troubleshooting procedures in the Helms, checking all the relays (they were good), the fuses (no problem), I jumped a connector as instructed in the manual, when the a/c shut off completely. expletive. I checked all the fuses, nothing Double expletive!!

It was getting late so I decided to try again in the morning. 8:00 I am up working on the car again. Troubleshooting. I check the pressure switch. Looks good. Next I check the a/c thermostat. After removing the glove box, I find the thermostat. I run the tests on it, and it fails. I pull it out of its little space, and start to smell something. I put the thermostat to my nose, smells like an electrical fire. I pull it apart, and sure enough, the thing is burnt to hell on the inside. The connector end is easy enough to get to, but the sensor end is going into the evaporator. How the hell am I supposed to get this out? ****, time to go to work. I'll look at it later.

Sunday morning, after consulting my Helms, I see that the sensor end of the thermostat is way inside the evaporator unit, and the only way to get it out is to remove the evaporator. This requires evacuating the A/C. I don't want to do this. I see if I can get the sensor out without removing the evaporator. After removing some screws and clips, I can pry the cover open just enough to pull the sensor out of the cooling fins. I'm sure getting it back in will be a bitch. The part is supposed to come in this afternoon, so I'll try to put it in tomorrow. After the A/c works again, I'll get to replacing the fan motors.

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to share.

Mike

 

looks like you don't have much of a question there.
And good job on checking up ont he diagnosis of the shop. You definately saved yourself there.
But I have a few questions for you too.
#1 were you able to confirm a problem with either the radiator fan or the condenser fan?
#2 does the grinding noise still come from the compressor? (if it does you will need to replace the compressor and the reciever drier)

 

Yeah, the guys at the shop pretty much answered the questions I had. They didn't even look at the compressor noise problem, since the A/C wasn't working right to begin with. I guess I'll worry about that after I get the fans replaced.

When I was troubleshooting, there was a step where you jump the condenser fan relay that is supposed to make the condenser fan come on. I jumped it, the fan didn't come on, but I could tell it was taking a lot of power to try and make the fan come on, the engine was even bogging down. Then I burnt the A/C thermostat up and it wouldn't work at all. Later I connected the fan motor directly to the battery and it ran fine, which was weird. I don't know if there is a problem with the wiring between the relay and the motor. Maybe the motor is so close to dying, that it is taking more power to get it to turn on initially.

The radiator fan, however, would not run at all, even when I connected it directly to the battery. I'm pretty sure that it's toast.

Tonight I'm going to install the new thermostat I got. Once the a/c works again, I'll get to replacing the two fans.

Mike

 

I feel like I'm replying to myself. Oh well.

I replaced the A/C thermostat inside the evaporator last night. Yes it can be done without removing the evaporator from the car. It's kind of a pain, but less of a pain on my wallet to have the shop evac and recharge the A/C. As soon as I got the thermo replaced, the compressor would kick on like it's supposed to.

Now, the condenser fan is coming on like it's supposed to. I switched the button on and off several times and it worked each time. It's blowing strong as well.

The radiator fan is not coming on, however. I had to reach in and turn the fan blades with my finger, and it started going. OUCH! The blade turns really slow, ans has a noticable amount of wobble to it. The motor is getting replaced tonight.

I will continue to update.

Mike

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slowexcoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The radiator fan is not coming on, however. I had to reach in and turn the fan blades with my finger, and it started going. OUCH! The blade turns really slow, ans has a noticable amount of wobble to it. The motor is getting replaced tonight.

I will continue to update.

Mike</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good call as the motor is probably your issue if you were able to "jump start" it.

 

Slow, you did very well at self diagnosis. That shop was so wrong and I'd be leary about going there again without steel armor pants on. If the fan comes on when hooked directly to the battery, DUH the fan is fine. Good thing you caught that, too many folks wouldn't and pay their idiotic price to have both fans replaced and get the car back with the old problem still there. You should give a detailed explanation of your steps to get to the thermostat from inside the car without evac and removal of the box.

 

The shop's diagnosis wasn't that far off, really. When I picked the car up after they looked at it, the mechanic said had to jump start the condenser fan with a screwdriver. After he did that, he said it would run fine. After I got it home and got to looking at it, the condenser fan still wasn't coming on. I had to jump start it as well. It seems like that was the only time I had to kick start it since. It's been coming on every time by itself since then. I don't know if it got gunked up, corroded, or whatever, but it seems to have worked itself out for now.

The interesting thing is when I tried to jump the connector the relay plugs into, it wouldn't come on. It tried to, but bogged everything down so bad, it burnt the A/C thermostat up. When I applied 12V directly to the fan plug, it came on, no problem. My guess is the motor is starting to get weak, and the extra resistance of the wires, plugs and relays is cutting down on the voltage (or amps) enough that it won't run. I have already ordered another to take its place when it finally dies, (or whenever the part arrives, whichever comes first).

I got the radiator fan motor replaced last night. It was just the motor with the wires, so I had to splice and solder the wires together, which made it just a little more aggravating. Now the radiator fan comes on with a vengeance!! I drove it to work again today, and out at lunch where it was about 85 degrees, pretty humid, and sunny. These were the same conditions where the problem first showed up. I am proud to say the A/C didn't cut off once! I had to run into the post office for a couple of minutes, and it ran the whole time, even idling in park at a few stoplights.

So it appears everything is cool for now. If anything else happens, I'll come back and update.

Mike

 

Glad it worked out for you.
come back when you have another problem

 

I almost forgot to explain how I got the A/C Thermostat changed without removing the evaporator box.

First, I had to remove the two screws that hold the glove box to the dash. There are 2 philips head screws, one on each side. There on one screw that holds the arm that keeps the glove box from coming out to far.

There's a bracket (the same one the glove box screws to) you have to remove. There is a 10mm bolt on the right side, and one on the left also. Before you get to the one on the left, you have to unscrew the center console from the bracket. You can then pop the corner of the console out a little ( be careful) and reach the other 10mm bolt. Now that the bracket is loose you have to wiggle it out from behind the dash.

Remove the three conectors that are hooked to the bracket. One connects to the fam timer module, and the other two are blue plugs, I'm not sure what they do. You can then set the bracket aside.

Next, you have to disconnect the temperature control cable from the bottom of the evaporator. You may have to remove a little trim piece from the bottom, but that comes out easily. Slide the cable out from it's clamp and slip the o-end off the valve. You can then pull it out of the way, I stuck it back in the dash to keep it out of the way.

Now you'll be staring at the evaporator. You'll see three wires together leading to the A/C thermostat near the top of the evaporator. Unplug the connector. Then you can push down and slide the thermostat out of it's spot, I can't remember if it is left or right.

To avoid removing the whole evaporator, you're going to have to crack open the box. Remove the metal clip on the front and a couple of screws on the bottom front of the case. Now you can insert a screwdriver in the box and crack it open. Go slowly so you don't break anything. I was able to open it up about an inch and a half before I got worried about breaking it. You can now see there the wire probe of the thermostat goes inside the case. The probe goes through a little clip that is inserted into the fins of the evaporator. I'm not sure how important this is, but make a note of there you pulled the clip from. Insert a long screwdriver inside and pry it out. It doesn't take much. You can then spread open the clip and remove the old wire and put the new one in.

This part is a little tricky. You now have to put that clip with the wire inside back where you got it from. The Helms says the clip needs to be 60mm from the top and the 5th fin from the inlet side. Just put it back as close to there you removed it from and it will be fine. Be patient cause it can be aggravating. Since you opened the clip to remove the wire, the clip doesn't want to stay closed. I used some needle-nose pliers to hold it closed and get it started in the the core. Then use that long screwdriver you had from earlier and push the clip in all the way. Now route the wire through it's little spot and close the box up. Reinstall the thermostat, and plug in the connector. Put everything back together in the reverse order of removal.

Mike

 

Another update.

Since I installed the new A/C thermostat, the air wasn't blowing out very cold, not as cold as it was a week before. I checked the temp control cables under the dash and everything was cool. Then I checked the cable under the hood. The valve was at least a third open. No wonder the air wasn't cold. I tried adjusting the cable, but couldn't get it to reach the valve when it was fully opened. I ended up having to bend up the whole heater valve assembly up so I could get the cable reattached. Now the air blows cold again.

Just a friendly reminder to check your temp control cables before you freak out about your A/C not working right.

Mike

 

How cold is it exactly? It should be about 40 (plus or minus) degrees Fahrenheit,

 

Before I took it to the shop, I took a digital cooking thermometer and put it in the vent in the middle of the dash. After sitting in the car holding the throttle between 1500 and 2000 rpm, the coldest I saw was 42 or 43 degrees. However, it was a cool evening (around 70) and the car was in the shade. I haven't checked it again, but since I adjusted the heater valve, I think it is as cool as it was before.

Mike

 

how did you know where the thermostat was?

 

Helms manual.

Mike