I did that already and it was penetrated, I used 2 plates of 1/4 inch thickness roughly, laid them down next to eachother leaving a very little tiny space inbetween and I could tell the weld was pentrated by 1. the sign of heat penetration and 2. actual weld penetration...?

 

You tested on a butt weld with a open root, then you performed a lap joint. The previous test as much easier to show penetration on. (In the future, an open root is the ideal way to weld two pieces of plate or pipe together with MIG when possible by the way.)

You don't have enough experience to perform a visual test yet. The cold lapped beads you performed earlier would be failed by any certified welding inspector. I tried to Google you a lap joint test but I could only find a vertical position as a good example.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/welding...ks/3633511989/

Note the flatness of the weld face and the motion illustrated over the weld. This is important!

What you have are basically welding splatters from probably spray-transfer MIG process due to improper machine settings. Keep practicing! Start out by doing basic weld tests before you start jumping in to projects.

Buy some scrap steel, clean it with a wire wheel or brush (not brake cleaner!), and practice 1F position. Search what that means and you will find a lot of information to help become a better welder.

As a side note, I actually passed the MIG certification in all positions including overhead but it has expired. It takes practice to really MIG weld properly. Any monkey can pull the trigger, but not everyone can actually MIG weld.

 

^^^ As this may be true you don't have a lot of experience with things. This is why I stay out of this forum because people are too worried about technical BS to be of any use. You must understand that no matter what you do the self-shielded flux-core wire tends to splatter a bit. With that being said it doesn't mean the welds can't look nice.

You basic horizontal fillet (1F) is probably the easiest thing to start with. A non-backing plate 1g should come after you are comfortable with 1F position.

Before you say I am full of it (and since you showed yours) I am certified in SMAW, MIG, and TIG all 6g/f carbon and stainless - SMAW and TIG high pressure carbon and stainless - SMAW unlimited (structural)... Yes I am current and have to go through reporting and/or testing every 6 months to stay current.

It's not a competition and there will always be someone better... but bad advise is just that. You can sit on your high horse and spout all you want - the guy is just trying to learn. You have to be able to look at a weld and see past the garbage and inform on how to correct. Being an instructor is nothing special... All you have to do is pass the test itself and then get somebody let you teach it. You can even have just a GED for all it matters... Obviously some companies will want more skills, classes, degrees, ect than others - for the most part non of it matters. As long as you can teach someone how to pass the test, you don't actually have to teach them how to weld - I stated this earlier.

 

I have been practicing but I already welded both mounts to the car, I really apreciate you helping me out with this. Its just my logic was Im not spending half a thousand dollars on a gas capatable welder and I never welded before. I wouldnt buy a dslr if I never even owned a point and shoot. In order for this machine to lay any kind of bead, the settings have to be nearly maxed out. Am I just getting failed on the weld because of solely how it looks?

I would prefer you and allmotor to stay in this forum and lend your experience. When either one of you chime in I go and research what the hell your talking about and I find it helpful.

I think were taking things out of context, I'm not trying to build a skyscraper.

 

I was just trying to give some helpful advice to get him going in the right direction. Not sure what got you so bent of shape.

Edit: I wrote all that pretty late and if it came out condescending I did not mean for it to be taken in that manner.

 

I don't mean go buy a $4,000 top of the line MIG welder, I just think it would be wise to practice similar positions first on scrap metal before jumping into a real project. It looks the way it does because it's not a sold wet bead, just a lot of cold 'splatters' of weld wire on the surface.

I also think you are doing just fine because it seems like you are willing to mess with your machine and do some practice before hand on some other pieces so just keep going for a while doing what you are doing and you will see some improvement.

 

Not sure how your credentials as an inspector for pressure vessles/boilers and repairs made to pressure vessels/boilers would gire you the ability to pass/fail sheet metal work where does that stamp go? Your arm or on the nameplate for the vessel? I dont think you know what your talking about....
(i weld in accordance with u, um, and n standards)

@OP that welder is garbage. It doesnt have enough power for any penetration. If you dont mind flux you would be better served by a stick welder with more power.

 

the welder has its purpose. comparing it to a stick welder is assinine. i am defanatly not going to try to stick weld thin metal when there a flux core welder around. depending on what your are trying to do, you will get pleanty of penitration. this is comming from someone who has ACTUALLY USED THIS ECAXT SAME WELDER.............and i used it on my motor mount bracket!

 

The weld he posted has zero penetration. That welder is trash. I would chose a stick welder over an hf flux core mig with zero heat control any day of the week.

 

he needs pratice. which he as asking for help on his technique.

OP, the welder is a fine starter. once your ready to upgrade u can sell it easly for $75+ i know i just sold one used on craigslist.

 

Advice received!
I'll continue practicing more with this welder but I have my eyes on an eastwood unit that stacks up against the lincoln 135.
I agree the welder may be garbage but it is definitely penetrating.


Thanks buddy

 

Why is everyone so obsessed with penetration? Am I the only straight one here? You can turn a welder up to 500amps and get all the penetration you want... Doesn't mean you are going to weld anything. If you can see how much a weld has penetrated by just looking at it then you must have X-Ray vision.

The key is a mix of things... Proper laying of the weld, correct temperature, and speed. You can have the welder set perfect and be traveling too fast to get the proper penetration. On the flip side you can be going too slow on get "too much penetration" by traveling too slow... It's all about technique. I understand this is just barely skimming the surface - but if you know anything about welding, you can probably catch my drift.

 

I think the obsession about penetration is that those welds are super cold, and therefore, probably not penetrated into the base metal very well.

 

Weren't you just talking about "cold splatters" all over his work piece? Please, just stop giving BS advice... If a welder is too hot it causes more spatter/splatter... If the spatter sticks then it is too hot, if it is able to be flicked off with a chipping hammer it is just right. While spatter/splatter should be minimal it will be there regardless with flux-core self shielding MIG welding. I think you need to go back to welding school and actually learn something. His problems is potentially too fast of feed rate and/or travel, too hot temperature settings, and not enough time spent "in the pool" - which relates back to the first point (any or all of these combinations).

 

Too hot? You have to be kidding.

 

Its just me harping on penetration, Ive been practicing what you have been saying about techniques and so far I have yeiled positive results.


I'm able to rub the spatter off by hand.....??


I just wanted to share this, I'm sure this doesnt mean anything about my welds but this happened:





I guess the true test will be over time...

 

If you were referring to me - where was I talking about the weld exactly? I was talking about spatter/splatter... So you have to be kidding... Me?

Oh well OP, good luck on your welding...

 

It's just a typical hobbyist starting. He has a project that required welding, so goes out and buys one.

No crime here, but yes a fracture critical load bearing joint isn't the best place to start for sure.

Let's help him. This awareness is very helpful. He's tackling a difficult project.

Not impossible, but difficult for a beginner for sure. He needs lots of practice and support - and he's asked for it from the OG's of which I am certainly one! That's what my apprentice at work calls me - the FOG - F'n Old Guy.

I recently picked up a MIG welder. Went with a Hobart Handler 210. It's been interesting practicing with it. I did a exhaust pipe repair on my dirt bike and welded a support bracket to the frame just ahead of the muffler to dampen vibration on the exhaust and hopefully prevent future fractures at the header.

I have a couple of projects that require welding. 1) Header support on the '91 Civic Hatchback to support the Stainless 4-2-1 header (no supports on it currently). I PM'd 9Bells for some consultation on material ans such. 2) Mini-Bike or Trail Bike frame projects - engine swap and jackshaft mods.

I've got high school welding experience - gas, brazing, AC stick arc and a little TIG way back when it was new. Also, in the late 70's I did a gig for 1 1/2 yrs of industrial welding putting 5/16" round stock metal "chairs" on wrapped rebar round metal "cages" that went inside concrete pipe. That welder was a 400 amp monster with no adjustments. Had to move fast.

Translating that experience to the new MIG machine/process has been interesting. The first thing I struggled with is the new style auto-darkening helmet. That was a trip - I'm used to flipping a cover shut, snapping head forward to tilt a full helmet into position or using a "mask" on a stick type handle in the left hand with torch in the right hand.

After a day of acclimating to the new helmet, I could start concentrating on what I was doing with the electric torch. I ended up making a run to Northern Tool and picked up 0.024", 0.030" & 0.035" solid wire and a roll of 0.030" flux core wire.

Using 1/8" x 3/4" wide angle mild steel for practice welding. Prior experience is a help in as much as I know what it's supposed to look like and have a basic knowledge of heat settings, penetration, etc. But, I have found MIG welding to be a world apart from AC stick arc.

So, before tackling the stainless exhaust project on the hatchback over the christmas holiday break, there will be plenty of wire and argon mix consumed practicing. Getting better at it after the full weekend of practice session welding last week. But still need lots more to be able to lay down a clean bead consistently that has good structural integrity.

Hope this helps the OP a little. Interesting reading your thread bro. Good luck with your project.

 

Thanks for the advice big guy I'm glad you were able to come in here level headed because I kind of started some beef. I have no buddies that weld nor have experience welding so I was really on my own with this. Ofcourse I went big for my first attempt at welding but I enjoyed it and I look forward to practicing my technique more so. Everyone that commented on this thread has been nothing but kind to me and I apreciate everyone's advice.

 

No beef i just think you could lay a bead that looks just fine if you used a proper machine.

 

A "good" welder can typically compensate for the machine (not always but usually). That machine can't be that bad. Makes me want to put down all my Miller stuff and go buy one of the garbage ones to show your theory is full of holes. As I said from the start OP (as is typical with most beginner welders) your travel speed is too fast. The metal won't melt as fast as you think (unless you are welding very thin gauge material with heavier wire).

 

Go for it. One thing that's not open for debate - none of us were born knowing how to weld. Those of us that can, had to learn how.

You'll get it figured out.

 

not a bad starter setup like the others have said grab some scrap and practice before you go and weld something critical i always warm up before i weld anything to get my machine dialed in and so that i can get the feel back. Mess with the settings while you practice i learned the most just by messing around with the amps and the wire speed.

 

those welders are not bad for small jobs and light metal, they dont like thick stuff or long runs. there just isnt enough blast behind an electrical welder you need gass, i have seen alot of crap welds hold for a long time, but on a motor mount with a gassless welder,,, i wouldnt risk it. craigslist, you can find people sellin millermatics for 4 or 500 buck with a tank and helmit. cant beat that, good luck with the proj hope it works out for ya.

 

? What does this mean? Any type of arc, TIG, MIG is electric by definition. Do you mean flux core welding -vs- gas shielded?