Hi I was just wondering what is the best oil to use for a tranny, i heard that i can use 10w30 motor oil and its better then gear oil, i was just wondering if this is true,I have a 1997 Integra GSR.

 

honda MTF

 

Do a search of this forum using the words "MTF" or "Syncromesh" to find lots of discussion here on these fluids.

 

Before Honda came out with their MTF--they recommended using a good 10w-30 or 10w-40 motor oil. I have the original owners manual for my 89 civic hatch--and it says to use the 10w30 or 40 motor oil--I don't think they actually came out with the specific Honda MTF until the mid 90s. I have heard the GM syncromesh fluid works even better than Honda MTF, and can actually get rid of mild grinds in the honda trannies. I have used the Honda MTF since they came out with it--I have also heard that the Redline MTF has caused notchy shifting and grinding in some honda trannies.

 

i use the gm syncromesh in my tranny makes less noise and shifts great

 

Gawd!!

The GM/Chrysler/Pennzoil syncromesh fluids are significantly thinner than the 10W-30, Honda MTF or GL4 75W-85 recommended for these trannies. Don't use them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by d16dcoe45 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have also heard that the Redline MTF has caused notchy shifting and grinding in some honda trannies.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Funny, I've never driven a Honda tranny that didnt do that!

i recommend Royal Purple

 

"I recommend Royal Purple."

Really? How irresponsible of you!

The recommended Honda MTF has a thickness of 11.5 cSt. Red Line MTL is a bit thinner coming in at a range of 10.5 to 11.5 but it's pretty close and probably has a better anti-wear additive package.

Royal Purple makes two fluids you could use in a manual transmission:

Syncromax - 7.5cSt (made to replace ATF in manual trannies calling for such) or
Max Gear - 21.0 cSt (a very heavy gear oil listed as a 90 weight but significantly heavier than most 90 weights which come in at around 15.0-16.0 cSt.)

How could one of Royal Purple's fluids possibly be a good choice for a Honda manual transmission?

I suppose you could use their 10W-30 motor oil as Honda used to recommend this type of lubricant for their manual trannies but it is far from a good choice for the following two reasons:

1) The coefficient of friction of the newest motor oils is too low. They are too slippery for proper syncro engagement. Shifting is likely to be notchy, and syncros (already a weak point in Honda trannies, if there is one) will experience premature wear.

2) Royal Purple shears down and thins out like no oil I've seen before. Even marketed as a synthetic, I've seen their 10W-30 shear down from a 10W-30 to a 20 weight at temp in 1,500 miles in a stock Honda Civic.

Royal Purple indeed.

 

My ''super thin is going to **** my tranny up'' synchromesh works wonders for me, have used it for over 40k miles with plenty of runs at the track.

tranny still shifts like brand new...what do you know..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bror Jace &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Royal Purple indeed.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its been working fine for me for the last 30K.

Sorry Bro...err Bror, what do you recommend? You never mentioned that.

 

mobil 1 10/30

 

"My ''super thin is going to f**k my tranny up' synchromesh works wonders for me, have used it for over 40k miles with plenty of runs at the track. Tranny still shifts like brand new ... what do you know?"

Evidently more than you. The key to syncromesh fluid replacement is to find a product with the same weight of the factory spec'd oil ... but with a better base oil (Group IV & V synthetics) and improved additive package (more anti-wear additives such as boron).

Oh, and the word "syncromesh" is NOT a brand name but a class of fluids ... although I assume you are usinng GM Goodwrench syncromesh. That fluid as well as the Chrylser and Pennzoil fluids are of similar viscosities ... and simply too thin for Honda trannies.

mmullen, get back to me after you've hit 100,000 miles and let me know how your tranny is doing.

dfoxenger, I used Mobil 1 10W-30 in my '90 Integra ... hated it. Drained it after about 200 miles. Tranny was terribly notchy. It was the formula available in '92-93 ... pre Tri-Syn.

FaS4wS, I can think of 3 possibilities:

Red Line MTL (a fave for Honda trannies)
Honda MTF (works ... but not an impressive formula - essentially a tweaked motor oil)
Specialty Formulations MTL-P (I'm using this stuff in a Nissan 6-speed right now).

http://www.specialtyformulatio...5.htm

The MTL-P might be a touch thick for use in the northern climates, I'd be tempted to cut it some with Specialty Formulations SynchroGlide:

http://www.specialtyformulatio...5.htm

Specialty Formulations SynchroGlide is a GM/Chrysler/Pennzoil equivalent syncromesh oil ... but is a 100% synthetic formula.

Supposedly Amsoil has some relatively new syncromesh fluids but I'm not really that familiar with their line.

 

Gm syncro. is more like an 80w gear oil.
It starts off as a 5w30 non detergent oil
Viscosity of syncromesh at a 100*C, cst is 9.1

 

True, but 80 weight gear oil spans quite a range. The following chart shows that an 80 weight gear oil could be anywhere from 7.0 to 10.5 cSt.

http://www.specialtyformulatio...9.htm

 

So you have had good luck with Redline MTF? They really need to simplify these weight categories--The honda MTF--really never seemed that much better than motor oil. Like I said eariler--I have the original owners manual for my 89 civic, they specified to use a good 10w-30 or 10w-40 mineral oil for the trans--I don't think Honda came out with their MTF till like 96-97--I could be wrong though. Alot of posts I have read on here says that people who have put the "syncromesh" fluid in their trannies, have gotten rid of grinds and notchy shifts....

 

I understand that; i was just posting facts. Its a little thicker that what you stated above.
so how about 10-30 cst's?...

Now, i do not have the oil knowledge that you do; but im not a noob at this car '' thing'' so i would appreciate if you did not talk down to me...thanks.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bror Jace &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">mmuller, get back to me after you've hit 100,000 miles and let me know how your tranny is doing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

considering that the tranny in question already had 40-50k when i got it BEFORE i put another 40k on + 70-80 drag runs on it. Still shift like new..or so i think.


Would you care explaining why running a little thinner oil will hurt just a honda tranny?
Honda guys are not the only ones that swear by it; mitsu guys..hehe they like it more than us.. ask awd 3kgt fans.


this is taken straight from the pennzoils site;
'' Synchromesh Fluid is formulated with high quality paraffinic base stocks, a fluidity modifier, multifunctional performance additives, corrosion inhibitors, a foam suppressor and a shear stable viscosity index improver additive. It provides excellent oxidation stability, low temperature performance, excellent synchronizer performance and compatibility with yellow metals, such as bronze, brass and copper components found in manual transaxles and transmissions. ''


Get technical so we can understand once for all.
If we all been getting it wrong, get it straight.


Modified by mmuller at 1:26 AM 9/15/2005