hey HT,

SO I have a b20vtec with 50,000 km on it.. built right, block reinforced, stock b16 head
after 20,000 km head gasket fails.. diff mechanic takes it apart to change the headgasket and finds the arp main studs are torqued to something silly like 45 ft/lbs they swap the headgasket(GEagle 84.5mm both times) and retorque to 85ft/lbs and also recommend I come back in 20,000 km and retorque them. 30,000 km later everything running fine I pay another shop to swap my engine into a diff car, they take the entire engine+tranny and swap them. no problem and no chance of ****ing up the head gasket seal. They give me back the car AND FORGET to switch the ECUs (even tho I mentioned it 43549839 f&*$ing times) of course first day im driving it around and wanna test if they wired vtec right... so im going 5>6500 rpm driving it for a few hours.. going wtf I dont hear it kicking in... pull over unplug the green plug get no cel and finally clue in to the fact the dummy didnt put the right ecu in... now I have the right ecu and everything works fine.. except the nice oil leak right where the block and head meet... could I have detonated and blown the head gasket?? what should my next step be?

My b20v is 11.9:1 and properly tuned.. I drove for about 3 hours on a 95 LS ECU
could this be the reason my head gasket is now blown? if we pull it apart will we see visible proof of detonation? can the cylinders not be round anymore from this? the oil leak is very small and just where the block and head meet right above the b20 stamp.. engine pulls hard and drives good.. but obv im not happy.

sorry for the huge post just trying to provide as much info as I have.

will do a compression test on monday (was 220 across board last checked about 2 months ago)... also the engine was missing at idle with the stock ecu and idles perfect with the chipped ecu.

 

Most likely not your hg. Check your Vtec solenoid gasket's. Distributor o-ring, cam plug and valve cover seal.

Blown hg was result in loss of coolant and or other symptoms.

 

NOTHING was leaking before the swap. There was most likely detonation occuring when I ran the car with the wrong ecu. I CAN SEE AND FEEL the oil coming from the HG, right where the block and head meet. Did you read my entire post before saying you think its the cam seal or valve cover seal?? I will add a picture to show where the leak is...

 

LOL, Did you check the places I suggested? I mean seriously if your car was detonating you will notice it.

 

how would I notice a slight detonation, does it not sound like a lil ping? the ls ecu doesnt have a knock sensor and the exhaust is so loud I cannot even hear if the breaks were to squeek..


The red circle is where the leak starts from (after cleaning and keeping an eye on it) the green circle you can see it starting to pool up..

 

I'm guessing you don't have a wideband to monitor your AFR. It is very possible to be a cracked hg but again I highly doubt it. Clean that general area of the motor and run your car to see if it's leaking from else where. If not then yes it's your hg.

 

no wideband. of course used one during dyno tune, but the stock ls ecu was in there when I first got the car back, and I of course assumed they had switched it. When going out there to look if the leak could be coming from higher up I now notice coolant in the back section of the engine on the block same side... Im gonan go clean it and have a quick drive.. if this comes back as well then I KNO the hg got blown from this.. I definetly did not have 2 leaks. GRR ... and do you think I can prove it was detonation that blew it? should the shop be liable for changing HG.. when I do change HG should I check the block/cylinders for irregularities? Can I resuse my arp head studs for a 3rd time?

FML lol

 

Check to see where the coolant is leaking from, most likely from the IM not torqued properly or a cracked coolant line. You can't really blame the shop since you should of checked everything before driving it. And yes your ARP studs should be fine for re use.

 

really you think it should be my job to get under the dash rip out the kickpanel and check that they used the right ecu? after i mentioned it more then 3x (do not even start this engine without changing the ecu first)

nothing was touched, they pulled the engine the way it was and dropped it back (as for incorrectly torqued IM)

and let me get this straight im not trying to find someone to cover this, I just want whats right. AND i want to make sure i dont need a new HG in another 30,000km!!! regardless of who pays for this one. So I still want to know... could it have been the retorquing. or is it most like form running lean and possibly detonating due to the ecu? thanks for sharing ure opinion moua

 

Detonating from what I know will not affect your hg. More likely toasting up your valves or other internal hardware.

And about you mentioning to them to change your ecu, yes it's their bad for not putting the right one in but for you not to double check is your own fault. Never trust anyone too much. It takes 2 minutes to double check your ecu.

If you're IM is torqued properly then I would check your coolant lines for leaks.

 

Really? I thought the extra pressure from incorrectly timed combustion had enough force to blow head gaskets or change the shape of cylinders or even crack them..

So what would have caused the HG failure.. I dont wanan replace it again(3rd one in under 50,000 mi) and have it fail again ...

 

So even with your (tuned ecu) you're experiencing head gaskets going bad right?

So I highly doubt the ls ecu is your problem. If your headgasket blew you would be burning coolant literally.

Do you have any sort of ventilation for your motor?

 

FIRST HG went bad after 12,000 mi (acura mechanics said the studs were torqued to under 45 ft lbs) it was changed and I was told to retorque after 15,000 mi(which I didnt)

20,000 mi later everything is working great and I get it swapped. HG leaking starts first day I get it back.. this is why I made this thread to find out if it was the detonation or retorqing or something completely different

ventilation... oil catch can? no just stock hose to the intake... was told it wasn't necessary, are crank case pressures that high that it could be blowing the hg?

 

I don't see how a hg could go bad being under torqued. Was there any visible damage to it? If detonation was the case I would do a compression test/ leak down test to determine instead of just guessing.

And yes an oil catch can is best for this kind of setup. Too much crank case pressure will cause the weakest seals to blow/leak.

 

ok thanks for the advice im gonna order up a catch can kit right now so its here before I even have time to get the HG redone... do you recommend one, I have only found the NRG and the Endyn ones. Do they require tapping the block?

the first time there was no physical damage, just the mec said whoever did it last way under torqued it.. it started to let air in into the cooling system and the hoses would swell with pressure.. so had it redone and no problems till now when I just got it swapped to diff shell.

 

I'm running an endyn setup. You could either vent it from the block or the VC. Venting it from the block is easiest since you will not need to weld anything.

 

This is how it should look



These are the parts you will need. Piecing it together is cheaper then ordering the kit from Endyn.
2 fittings for the block/2 seals and a 14mm hex bolt to take the plugs out of the block. You can buy the lines from Lowes

 

can you point me to an article that lists all the parts(and partno s) i need from honda, or if you have them all handy can you?

also what else can I do/check to narrow down possible causes for these HG failures.. before or after the head is off.

 

You can see the part #'s in the pics above that you need from honda. Everything else you should be able to find locally.

Block fitting part #: 11107-PK2-003
Seals for block fittings part #: 12207-634-300

 

leak down test/ compression test, lost of coolant when the car is running.

I don't see how you hg can take a crap on you all the time. I still highly suggest you check the vtec solenoid gaskets, cam plug, and distributor o-ring before you rip the head off again.

 

I will check them, but if they were leaking wouldnt I see it trickling down to there? or would they leak still where the picture is circled?

 

You won't see oil gushing out unless the gaskets are total $hit. But you will usually see a line of oil running down the head onto the block. Most of the time when one of those mentioned gaskets leak the oil will sit where you have it circled.

 

I was wondering. After swapping out a HG, is it normal to see oil on the outer edge of the gasket where the head meets the block? The oil is not actually dripping or even flowing, and it's just more of a "sweat" of oil that you can see on the edge of the gasket that sticks out a .5-1mm out of the head/block "seam". When you wipe it off, oil is gone, but after driving, it comes back but doesn't drip or get any worse. Just a sweat of oil. Is this normal?

 

thats exactly what I have. it just builds up a lil more and drips down

 

How much time/miles driven are we talking about after it builds up and drips?

The oil I see is really so small of an amount (but I SEE oil) that it just sits on the edge of the HG between head and block. It doesn't build up or start streaming down the block. It also happens to be on a corner.

If I press a paper towel against it, I'd see a thin line created by the oil.

Hmmm, I wonder if I have to worry now. Before this happened, did you see an oil on the head/block seam where you can see the edge of the HG?