I was wondering how much this statement is true. While I know that a lower profile tire helps your handling, how low do you need for a honda. The larger the rim, the more heavy it is, and this unsprung weight multiplies as you accelerate. Can I get away with 15's for good performance handling, or do i really need 17's. I know i need some new tires, but how far do i have to go? I'm not going to be doing any auto cross, but I would like to improve my street handling. Thanks for your help.

 

If you check around this site I bet about 85 % of the people on here including me run on 15" rims and tires. They have alot of selection in 15" for performance tires. You might want to check out the yokohoma avs 100 tires. And you really don't have to go that low of a sidewall either. Most people want smaller sidewalls for better rigid when doing their intinal turn in. Tires with large sidewalls tend to flex under weight transfer. But you won't have to worry about that too much because you don't autox.

 

i think sportcompact car tested that with 15s and 17s or 18s on an accord, car lost 3whp with the bigger wheels.

 

Hey thanks for the help with the tire recomendation. I really would like to hear more peoples oppionions on what tires are good to run. Thanks

 

first off you have to remember that just because a wheel is 16" or 17" instead of the 15", doesn't mean they are going to be heavier. the lightweight racing style wheels (not the average aftermarket wheel which is more for style) are normally lighter than the OEM Honda 15" wheels such as the GSR or SI. some being 11 or 12 pounds, compared to the 15-16 pounds for the stock wheel. so you can spend the extra $$ on lightweight wheels and cut down on the unsprung weight. but at the same time some of the aftermarket tires may be heavier then the OEM ones, even though they are a lower profile. most likely they won't be heavier when mounted and filled to the proper psi, but some may.

and as was already mentioned most use 15" wheels for various types of racing and for the street. i personally use 15" OEM GSR wheels since they are fairly lightweight and cause they were cheap to buy. i can still run a decent 195 or 205 tire on there with a 50 profile. with the correct psi in the tire and a good brand tire the car will handle very well. maybe not as well as a 16" or 17" setup, but it all depends on the combonation of tire, wheel, tire psi and tire alignment etc.

i have used Kumho Supra 712's in 205 size on 16" wheels which are pretty good overall. i am just finishing my set of Bridgestone S03 Pole Position tires in 195/50 size on my GSR wheels. great tires for cornering and dry traction, stiff sidewall. but when it comes to very wet or snowy conditions forget it. i just ordered my new set of tires, Falken Azenis 205/50/15 to mount on my GSR wheels. some of my friends have used them since last year and they love them, so i thought i'd give them a try. also for the $$ Nitto 450's in 195/50/15's aren't bad at all, roughly $55 each depending where you get them. i plan on sticking with a 15" wheel, but maybe stepping up to a 7" width for a wider tire.

by running the smaller wheel with a fairly low profile tire, and having it be lightweight, you will accelerate quicker. basically the effect of having shorter tranny gears. and if the wheel/tire combo is light, you can stop quicker too which is a good thing.

BTW i'm also from Pa like some of you guys.

 

Unfortunately some of this information is incorrect. As stated above you can get 16's or 17's which weigh less than a stock 15" wheel...but beware...its not "really" lighter. Due to the wheel being a larger diameter and much of the weight being further from the center, in a physics type based world, the wheel is actually heavier as seen by the engine. Unsprung weight will decrease - true. But as far as gearing and rotational energy needed to spin the wheel you will be at a loss. In all reality, I don't see how a 16 or 17" wheel could really give you any gains overall.

In conclusion, get the smallest diameter and lightest wheel which will fit over your brakes and allow you to run a decent width tire.

 

i like my wheels like i like my women...small and light......mugen rnr 15" w/195-45-15 avs.for steet.... .13" for auto x

 

Maybe this will simplify things for some people...
Think of a wheel as a huge lever. More weight towards the outside will make it harder to turn the lever. This is why a lighter wheel may not be the best choice...it depends on where the weight is. (called moment of inertia)

 

This is all good stuff, any more tire recomendations? I think I am going to go with a 12 lb 15 rim. but what tires?

 

There are many good points on here. Larger wheels = more rotational mass, they also lengthen your gearing. You will notice that most peeps have 15's some drag cars have 14 or even 13" slicks. A 12lb 15 is an excellent choice. You can also do a search and there are some excellent tire threads on here.

 

I personally enjoy the fact that we focused on handling performance. But isn't it true that for drag applications you actually want MORE of a sidewall, and maybe even less stiff of a sidewall?

I went with the avs es100s on OEM 15s.

Here is a thread I used to help choose the sizes, and composition:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=445837

-PHiZ

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybridcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As stated above you can get 16's or 17's which weigh less than a stock 15" wheel...but beware...its not "really" lighter. Due to the wheel being a larger diameter and much of the weight being further from the center, in a physics type based world, the wheel is actually heavier as seen by the engine. Unsprung weight will decrease - true. But as far as gearing and rotational energy needed to spin the wheel you will be at a loss. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yes, that's some good info that i didn't mention.

all in all, 15" wheels are normally the best size to go with. but if 14's fit over your brakes and provide enough width for the tires that you need, then that may be even better.

 

bigger wheels=less torque,better handling

 

how do bigger wheels = better handling?

The only thing I can think you mean here is because they're wider???? You can get smaller wheels that are plenty wide enough if thats what you're talking about.

Bigger wheels = less torque in two categories. Changing your overall gear ration, and having a higher moment of inertia (due to weight being further from center.) Plus they usually add to your unsprung weight which hurts your handling.

 

you guys really have some conflicting info, and yet it sure is helpful. THere sure seems to be two sides of the coin. Any one else have any low buck tire recomendations? Thanks for your help and again i think im going for the 15's.

 

dood im from outer space i know these things

 

If you're going to make a comment like "bigger wheels = better handling" please have brains enough to back it up. And don't say something assanine like "I'm from outer space." Are you 12?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbod96ex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Any one else have any low buck tire recomendations? Thanks for your help and again i think im going for the 15's.</TD></TR></TABLE>

not sure what price range or performance range you're looking for exactly, but i'll see if i can help.

the Nitto 450's are not bad for the $$, normally about $50-55 per tire for a 195/50/15. that's not very wide, but they are good throughout most of the year.

quite a few of my friends use the Falken Azenis tire, which i just got the other day for the first time. not bad at all for the $$ IMO. i think prices range from $65-85 for a 15" tire depending where you get them from, but i'm not certain on that. i paid roughly $65 each for the 205/50/15's.

i just got done using a set of 195/50/15 Bridgestone SO-3 Pole Position tires.
not exactly the cheapest set of tires for a 15" wheel, but very good in dry applications. i think i paid about $75 each on sale, normally about $100 each.
not good for wet weather or snow.

the Kumho 712's aren't bad for the money, in between the cost of the Nitto 450's and the Falken Azenis. i have used those a couple times and they are good in dry weather, but so-so in the wet weather. better than the Bridgestone's in the rain though.

there are other brand tires for 15" wheels that are very good as well, i just haven't used them all personally. i'm sure others will have some input for you.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybridcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how do bigger wheels = better handling?

The only thing I can think you mean here is because they're wider???? You can get smaller wheels that are plenty wide enough if thats what you're talking about.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Less sidewall flex also?

-PHiZ

 

Side wall flex doesn't really effect your sidewall flex at all....it depends on the profile of the tire. As in 205 - 40, 205 - 50, etc. You could have a 17" wheel with some 205 60 tires and you're gonna have lots of sidewall flex as compared to a 205 40.

 

hybridcrx..kick back dood dont freak out..its true..have you tried different wheel/tire combinations?..i have so i know what im talkin about..look at jgtc or touring cars you dont see them running 15's or small rims..small rims big tires is more drag racing and big wheels is for at speed handling..

 

Haha....you have tried so you know? Tell us your findings. Are you running autocross or road races??? Have your times been better with larger wheels? Give us some specifics here. I have had plenty of different sized wheels and tires. I have riden in tons of cars with different sized wheels. Don't think I'm pulling this info out of my *** - which you seem to be doing.

Don't compare this guys honda to jgtc or touring cars - lmao. 1.) professional race cars don't drive on public streets so they can get away with incredibly light and pretty fragile wheels that we can't run on the street. 2.) professional race cars have a ton more power than your average honda does. 3.) professional race cars have out of this world suspension set ups. 4.) professional race cars run at speeds which this guy will barely ever, if ever, see. If they had 14 or 15" wheels, their top speed would be hurtin for certain. 5.) they have ginormous brakes that won't fit under anything any smaller.

Again, if you have some real world info thats going to help this guy or support your statements, by all means share them with us.


Modified by hybridcrx at 2:25 AM 10/6/2003

 

i have done autocross and road race..i have owned many different cars with the goal to be setup for raod race..i owned a 94 supra turbo that i would road race,maybe some people will remember the sept.1996 turbo magazine cover that was my supra..anyways i own a crx now and im almost done getting it ready for road racing..some of what you said is true..street drivin hondas are not exactly race machines,but we are talkin about wheel size and there is a difference..basically if your a road racer you want a larger diameter wheel with lower profile tires,but for the street its mostly what look that you like

 

I'm still confused as to your reasoning why bigger wheels are better? Smaller side wall = better turn-in and ultimately most likely better handling. I agree there. But since when do you have to get 17's or 18's to have a smaller sidewall??? I think a MAJOR factor for running bigger wheels is definetely larger brakes on many cars that won't fit under smaller wheels. Which I added above as my 5th reason why larger wheels are used on jgtc and touring cars as compared to a street honda.

On a side note...I think you can have too small of a side wall. I.E. 205 - 40's. I found that on my cars 205 - 45 tires gave me better results.

I'm not trying to be rude here or fight with you. I just like to think for myself. If something doesn't make sense...I'm not going to believe it until someone gives me some good evidence/reasoning. I've yet to be convinced by you that larger wheels are better.

 

i had been under the impression that a larger diamter tire leads to a lrger contact patch for a same width tire, for example a 205/40/17 will have a larger contact patch than a 205/5/0/14