I had one of the known CR-v issues where the valve seats were receding into the head and couldn’t get the correct valve lash. So I pulled the head and had new seats put in at a machine shop. I just placed the head back on the car but now it won't idle, but it will run if I depress the gas pedal.

Background
I initially fired it up and it idled fine after the head was back on, but I realized I forgot to hook up the return fuel line. Duh! Had to clean that up. Restarted it and the CR-V was idling fine and wanted it to idle for a while and get it up to temp. After a few minutes I backed it out the garage, shut it off and disconnected the upper radiator hose so I could flush the radiator and system. I fired up the car again I was flushing the system and all was fine. It might have been idling a couple hundred RPMs above normal but I hadn’t set the timing yet.

I rev’d the car to 3000 RPM for a 20 seconds and let off the pedal and the car died. Now the car will not idle. If I depress and hold the gas pedal the car will start and run as long as I am on the gas. It doesn’t lope, gasp, or surge. But if I let off the gas it will just die.

There are no OBD II codes being thrown. But the ABS light(not the check engine) does flash 7 times, when the service jumper is in. Which I guess on OBD1 was the TPS. I checked the harness and the TPS sensor and they are operating fine. I cleaned the IAT, with brake clean but the screen was not clogged to begin with. I did notice the screen was dented in a little. I checked the intake manifold bolts, and they were tight. I then screwed in the FITV plastic plunger but that had no effect.

I looked at the spark plugs which were the ones originally in the head before i had the work done and the ground electrode is slightly white but the car has been running a total of 15 minutes since the head was replaced.

I am stumped it sees like either I have a vacuum large leak or a fuel issue but I had none of these problems previous to replacing the head. I thought I just forgot to connect something but with no codes I am lost.

 

I just checked the MAP sensor and harness and it checks out..

I am hope this is something totally easy for sage honda tech....

 

Advance your timing by rotating the distributor towards the firewall, and see if that helps.

 

What did you set the valve lash too? If the valves are too tight it won't idle but otherwise seem to run fine.

 

I will try that.

 

I set them to .004 on the intake side and .007 on the exhaust. Now that it won't idle i was thinking maybe i should pop the valve cover and see if they have moved. Do they "seat" and change tolerances after initial running?

 

I forget what b20 lash range is but set it at the loose end. The tighter they are the less vacuum it will maintain at idle. Usually after initial running there should not be more than a few thou variance.

 

Good point, lash may have tighten upped.

On LS the recommended lash is 3-5/6-8 thou for in/ex. Looks like you're very systematic and chose the middle numbers.

 

Ok, perhaps this is a clue. Why does the ABS light flash 7 times when the service plug has a paper clip in it. Is this a code? or just saying the service clip is "active"

 

Here is a link to a video of the ABS light. Maybe i am counting it wrong but it looks like a 7. But I am guessing that the a blinking ABS light means something is wrong with the ABS? It only blinks when the service plug has the jumper in it. But nothing was wrong w/ the ABS prior to the head job.

 

I check the valve lashes and they are as i set them. i also checked all the vacuum and hose lines leading to and from the intake manifold.

 

Ok,

So this morning I tried it again, fired it up held the throttle at 3,000 rpm until the fans came on. Let off the throttle and it died.

Being frustrated I started trying stuff:
-I removed the IAC from the back and tried to start it - still needs throttle to run so no real change
-I put tape on the two holes on the intake manifold where the IAC goes (thinking that now engine is warm it is not needed) - still needs throttle to run so no real change
-I set the throttle cable with tension to have it run at 1500. If i pull the tape cover the IAC holes in the intake manifold the RPM go up. It is running rich? Or not enough air?
I sprayed some brake-clean into the air intake and made the engine stumble.
I then spray half a can of brake-clean around the intake manifold to see if there was a leak but there were no RPM changes so I am assuming that is not a leak.

Still no OBDII codes.

I am sure it is some simple thing that i forgot when swapping the head but i can't find it for the life of me.

 

So, I spent 3 more hours on the beast.

I pulled IAC and FIT cleaned them (again) and check the operation of the IAC, which does "click" and move a little bit when power was applied. Last time i just cleaned them in the car. I disconnected the battery thinking this would reset the computer. Maybe it got confused when initially started it up and 'learned' the wrong idle setting. Well I can hope, i am getting desperate.

Well it did the same thing, run initially and 1 second later it would die. I tried a few times and on the last time the computer seemed to help and it idled but a little low. I let it do the idle reset/learning, idled it until the temps came up for over 5 minutes. I checked and adjusted the timing it was between the two white lines but not on the red one so made it so.

I shut the car off, and tried to fire it up again and did the same thing, died a few times. Then it caught and ran but again not as "strong" as it should. I turned on the AC to see what it would do and the RPMS dropped to about 400.

I used a tube and could not hear any other sucking sounds like vacuum lead around the intake manifold.

I then hoped a trip around the block would help, the computer learn how to manage it. Well first stop sign it died. Had to hold the throttle to get it started and get it back in the garage.

I guess i will buy an AIC value and see if that fixes it. The symptoms point there but the coincidence that it worked before I had the head work and it magically broke sitting in the car just seems hard to believe.

If i put the cams in wrong would that do it? Is it even possible given the distributor has to fit into the slot on intake cam? I see no oil to indicate i have a bad head seal. I guess i could do a leak down on it but i am really grasping at straws...

 

Well hopefully today I will do a leak down test and get an used IAC valve and pray that is it. I was hoping that some Honda Tech black belt would whip out a "Hey Noob, I have seen this a ton you forgot to....."

 

if the motor can't idle theres a few basics to consider:

1. The engine is not getting the air aka choking. The IAC should control the air at idle as you know so if thats not functioning correctly it can cause that. Vaccum leaks would cause a high idle/fluctuation.

2. The vacuum reading on the map sensor is too far off to maintain steady idle. The cam timing and valve lash come to mind. You looked at the lash already but did you double check the mechanical timing?

 

i did finally get the car to idle sorta... It still nearly dies if rev to 3,000 and let off the gas. I did nothing but disconnect the battery overnight, then did the fast idle set or whatever it is called. Still when i fire it up, it runs then dips, then catches just before it dies and idles but still kinda low but noes not surge or lope.

Compression looked good ranging from 195 - 185, with #4 being low.

However leak down showed that hole #4 had 3 times as much leakage at any of the other 3. It sounds like it is coming from oil dip stick indicating it is rings. I saw no bubbles in the coolant in the top of the radiator. It also appears that i don't have head gasket issue. So i am now under the impression that rings in #4 are not sealing that well. I am not convinced this is the reason for the idle issues however. yes it is lower but the compression shows it is within 5% of the rest of the cylinders and usually that is good enough. The car doesn't run rough when I raise the RPMs.

Thoughts...

 

i am going to get an used IAC to rule this out. I sprayed out two cans of brake-clean over the whole intake area, and narry an RPM fluctuation unless i sprayed around the intake area which almost killed the car immediately. So i am 99% sure i don't have a vacuum leak. But problem is really low idle issues.

By mechanical, are you meaning the using of timing light to check the marks on the crank pulley? If so, yes i warmed the car up, put in the paper clip into the service plug, then adjusted the distributor and lined the red-line with the pointer.

 

I swapped the IAC and didn't do anything really.

I reset fast idle again. The car when cold and initially starts then the idles drops to 200-300 and then you can hear the ECU trying to save it then it hits fast idle and goes up to 1100. Once warm it runs fine and idles(mostly) it is still low and when you pull up to a stoplight it drops but only 500 and then moves back up to 750. I started to think maybe i had a bubble in the coolant system messing with it.

But this morning i started and almost died but then ran and idles but i decided to drive it before it got to full operating temp. It threw "too rich in bank #1" code. I am back to thinking i must have intake or head gasket leak. Every test i have done with propane and break clean failed to show i have an intake leak. Compression is close and doing a leak down i see no air bubbles in the radiator coolant. Any suggestions for a better test?

I put the intake manifold on the head before i put it in the car, because it is a serious PITA to get to the bolts and nuts once it is in the car. I guess you have to get them from under the car but there is so much stuff in the way? Any tips?

 

Recheck the belt timing, sounds like you may be off a tooth or 2

 

Had a similar issue. Make sure your timing is dead on. Loose valve lash with timing a bit off will run just fine, but when the valve lash is adjusted to specs the little off timing will cause the car to die when coming to a stop.

 

Well I ended up buying a exhaust gas check for the radiator. I wouldn't say it was a strong positive but when the NAPA Autoparts guys said they would warrenty my head gasket i decided to blow another weekend and swap the head gasket.

Well it runs much better now. BUT... it makes some clicking lifter sounds. I went to set the timing and when it was cold the timing looked to be close to TDC. After it warmed up and fans went on, put the service clip, i can't even find the timing lines. None of them are in visual range, the TDC nor the red mark. But the car still idles, a little low, but still idles fairly smoothly. I can run the A/C and doesn't die, it is idling around 500 hot not the 750 I would have expected.

I suppose it is possible that i didn't put the timing belt on right, but i did check it three times, rotated the crank like twenty times, and when the line on the crank sprocket was lined up w/ with the arrow on the block, the cams sprockets both had top on it, and the little lines pointing to each other. I've done a number of timing belt changes in my life.

Other than a timing belt or a magically defective timing light what else would cause the the timing lines to disappear? You can't put the distributor in 180 degrees out can you?

 

So for those who want to know. The intake belt jumped a tooth leading to above. Now all fixed and idles like a champ.