Alignment settings
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From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Alignment settings
First off, here's my setup [ car in sig ] :
APEX'i WorldSport Full Coilovers
Skunk2 Front Camber Kit
Sprint Extreme Rear Camber Kit
Tenzo-R Front and Rear Upper Strut Bars
I'm getting an alignment, and have been searching for reccomended specs. After compiling all of this information it seems like these settings would be good:
-1.3* Camber in the front, 1/32" Toe Out (total)
-1.5* Camber in the rear, 0 Toe
From what I've been reading, it looks like you want to have a bit more camber in the rear than in the front.. hence the settings that I listed. Is there anything else that I need to worry about? Also, I want a tiny bit of Toe Out in the front, not Toe In.. correct? Thanks a lot guys.
APEX'i WorldSport Full Coilovers
Skunk2 Front Camber Kit
Sprint Extreme Rear Camber Kit
Tenzo-R Front and Rear Upper Strut Bars
I'm getting an alignment, and have been searching for reccomended specs. After compiling all of this information it seems like these settings would be good:
-1.3* Camber in the front, 1/32" Toe Out (total)
-1.5* Camber in the rear, 0 Toe
From what I've been reading, it looks like you want to have a bit more camber in the rear than in the front.. hence the settings that I listed. Is there anything else that I need to worry about? Also, I want a tiny bit of Toe Out in the front, not Toe In.. correct? Thanks a lot guys.
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From: Locash
Re: Alignment settings (ccivic)
No one can help you cuz you haven't stated how you plan to use the car.
Why the hell would you want more negative camber in the rear than the front? This would cause understeer at the limit of adhesion, basically in long sweepers.
For street, go with OE spec toe or 0 toe front and rear, -1.3 camber front, something less around -.8 or so for the rear.
The only way to determine camber settings for racing is with a pyrometer and a clipboard. Toe settings are mostly up to the driver.
Why the hell would you want more negative camber in the rear than the front? This would cause understeer at the limit of adhesion, basically in long sweepers.
For street, go with OE spec toe or 0 toe front and rear, -1.3 camber front, something less around -.8 or so for the rear.
The only way to determine camber settings for racing is with a pyrometer and a clipboard. Toe settings are mostly up to the driver.
Thread Starter
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From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Re: Alignment settings (shaundrake)
The car will be a daily driver. I might be auto-x'ing a few times a year, but mainly a daily driver. I want this DD to be able to handle turns bad ***, though. Just from reading other's posts that are similar, it seems that most people have more negative camber in the rear. 
???
???
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From: Waterloo, Iowa, USA
Re: Alignment settings (ccivic)
do you have aftermarket rims? if so, tires arent cheap. get your toe set as close to 0 as possible, this will give you near perfect allignment and very less/no tire wear. the atuo x might be worth it, but if its your daily driver, it'll help alot
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From: Locash
Re: Alignment settings (ccivic)
More negative camber in the back is going to give you understeer. No way around that. Where are you getting this info from? Only car I know that benefits from more negative camber on the back is an MR2.
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From: M Town, TN
Re: Alignment settings (shaundrake)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaundrake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">More negative camber in the back is going to give you understeer. No way around that. Where are you getting this info from? Only car I know that benefits from more negative camber on the back is an MR2.</TD></TR></TABLE>
and bmw's..... most run about -2 in the back and -.5 in front stock
and bmw's..... most run about -2 in the back and -.5 in front stock
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From: deep in the heart of Texas
Re: Alignment settings (ccivic)
Toe out isn't much fun to drive on a day to day basis. I have mine set at zero and I still find it a bit much.
As far as setting camber you may not want to go crazy until you see how it works on the track. Wish I could remeber what setting I had. Stupid me didn't write it down but it works well.
As far as setting camber you may not want to go crazy until you see how it works on the track. Wish I could remeber what setting I had. Stupid me didn't write it down but it works well.
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From: Portland, OR
Re: Alignment settings (ccivic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ccivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So do you guys suggest -1.3* front, and -.8* rear with 0 toe for a street car? Wheels are 16" Rota Slipstreams</TD></TR></TABLE>
that sounds like a good street setup. Getting the toe set to 0 is the most important.
that sounds like a good street setup. Getting the toe set to 0 is the most important.
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From: Bay Area, CA
actually you can find the OE alignment specs in your honda owners manual(you dont even need a helms or anything).
it is not 0 toe all around,
here are the EG civic specs.
toe: f-0
r-2mm
camber: f-0
r- -20'
it is not 0 toe all around,
here are the EG civic specs.
toe: f-0
r-2mm
camber: f-0
r- -20'
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From: Gainesville, FL
Re: Alignment settings (ccivic)
keep in mind that a car will benefit from camber thrust depending on the tire's design. some tires benefit from more negative camber than others...
also, setting static camber isn't what's important. the whole purpose of this is to achieve a predetermined amount of camber relative to the road surface while cornering, not at a static position; having -1.8 deg static camber doesn't mean you'll have -1.8 deg relative to the road while cornering.
that's my input on this subject...
also, setting static camber isn't what's important. the whole purpose of this is to achieve a predetermined amount of camber relative to the road surface while cornering, not at a static position; having -1.8 deg static camber doesn't mean you'll have -1.8 deg relative to the road while cornering.
that's my input on this subject...
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From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Re: Alignment settings (slateraptor)
So toe to stock or toe to 0? What're the stock alignment specs on the 97EX? Also.. how do you guys feel about rolling the fender a bit, so if anything happens to rub, it's not going to eat my tires? Plus, it'll make it look better.
Thanks
Thanks
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From: Locash
Re: Alignment settings (slateraptor)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slateraptor »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also, setting static camber isn't what's important. the whole purpose of this is to achieve a predetermined amount of camber relative to the road surface while cornering, not at a static position; having -1.8 deg static camber doesn't mean you'll have -1.8 deg relative to the road while cornering.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think that's pretty obvious. -1.8 degrees static in a turn is going to be more than -2 degrees on the outside tires, and less than -1 degrees on the inside tires. Ideally you'd like to have 0 camber at static ride height and have the compression of the suspension cause only enough negative camber that the tire lays even pressure across the tread surface in a turn. You'd also want the inside tires to lay flat but of course they're in rebound. If you want to budget me, I can invent some electronically controlled swivel motors for each wheel to adjust the alignment dynamically. Along with hydraulically controlled spring rates. Just in case you got a couple mil burning a hole in your pocket.
I knew someone would bring up some fancy German ****. So... I'm betting that particular BMW has a rear weight bias?
I know the OE spec isn't 0 toe front and rear, but it works pretty well on modified street cars anyway. And it's quicker to set up when you're putting your alignment back to street after you've been adjusting it all damn day.
I think that's pretty obvious. -1.8 degrees static in a turn is going to be more than -2 degrees on the outside tires, and less than -1 degrees on the inside tires. Ideally you'd like to have 0 camber at static ride height and have the compression of the suspension cause only enough negative camber that the tire lays even pressure across the tread surface in a turn. You'd also want the inside tires to lay flat but of course they're in rebound. If you want to budget me, I can invent some electronically controlled swivel motors for each wheel to adjust the alignment dynamically. Along with hydraulically controlled spring rates. Just in case you got a couple mil burning a hole in your pocket.
I knew someone would bring up some fancy German ****. So... I'm betting that particular BMW has a rear weight bias?
I know the OE spec isn't 0 toe front and rear, but it works pretty well on modified street cars anyway. And it's quicker to set up when you're putting your alignment back to street after you've been adjusting it all damn day.
Thread Starter
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From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Re: Alignment settings (shaundrake)
Dropped it off at Performance-Alignment (www.performance-alignment.com). The guy has been doing race cars for over 30 years, so I started talking to him about the settings and it ended up me letting him do whatever he thought best. I told him I wanted it aggressive but without wearing out the tires.. he told me alright. I pick it up tomorrow-- I'm expecting good results. My brother's car (where I got the suspension from) was aligned by them, and it drove AWESOME.. You could easily take 45*+ onramps at 90MPH.
I'll let you guys know the before and after.
I'll let you guys know the before and after.
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From: Gainesville, FL
Re: Alignment settings (shaundrake)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaundrake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think that's pretty obvious. -1.8 degrees static in a turn is going to be more than -2 degrees on the outside tires, and less than -1 degrees on the inside tires.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you'd be surprised how many people don't know this. i just mentioned it because there appeared to be so much emphasis on static camber.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaundrake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you want to budget me, I can invent some electronically controlled swivel motors for each wheel to adjust the alignment dynamically. Along with hydraulically controlled spring rates. Just in case you got a couple mil burning a hole in your pocket.</TD></TR></TABLE>
lotus is about 25 years ahead of you w/ a far superior design
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaundrake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I knew someone would bring up some fancy German ****. So... I'm betting that particular BMW has a rear weight bias?</TD></TR></TABLE>
or perhaps a lot of torque at the rear wheels...or even to compensate for the lack of vertical load at the rear...i speculate too damn much
you'd be surprised how many people don't know this. i just mentioned it because there appeared to be so much emphasis on static camber.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaundrake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you want to budget me, I can invent some electronically controlled swivel motors for each wheel to adjust the alignment dynamically. Along with hydraulically controlled spring rates. Just in case you got a couple mil burning a hole in your pocket.</TD></TR></TABLE>
lotus is about 25 years ahead of you w/ a far superior design
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaundrake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I knew someone would bring up some fancy German ****. So... I'm betting that particular BMW has a rear weight bias?</TD></TR></TABLE>
or perhaps a lot of torque at the rear wheels...or even to compensate for the lack of vertical load at the rear...i speculate too damn much
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From: Locash
Re: Alignment settings (slateraptor)
Yeah let us know what the final settings come out to.
I wasn't pretending like my ideas were new or anything. In fact, I'm aware of the patents. I think it's Mercedes that has the tires electronically controlled camber in the turn and then stand up straight, beyond the natural effect of what happens when the suspension compresses. I heard about the hydraulic suspension from Whiteline. It's designed to have a 0 spring rate over bumps, and a near infinite spring rate on the outside tires in a turn. Very expensive and not legal in any racing series.
I wasn't pretending like my ideas were new or anything. In fact, I'm aware of the patents. I think it's Mercedes that has the tires electronically controlled camber in the turn and then stand up straight, beyond the natural effect of what happens when the suspension compresses. I heard about the hydraulic suspension from Whiteline. It's designed to have a 0 spring rate over bumps, and a near infinite spring rate on the outside tires in a turn. Very expensive and not legal in any racing series.
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: Alignment settings (shaundrake)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaundrake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I knew someone would bring up some fancy German ****. So... I'm betting that particular BMW has a rear weight bias?</TD></TR></TABLE>
BMW = fancy german ****? Hardly. My E36 isnt all that "fancy" and pretty easy to work on. 50/50 weight distribution.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaundrake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah let us know what the final settings come out to.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yay!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ccivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I want this DD to be able to handle turns bad ***, though</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah because j00 need "bad *** handling" on a daily driver and the alignment will make that happen :rollseyes:
BMW = fancy german ****? Hardly. My E36 isnt all that "fancy" and pretty easy to work on. 50/50 weight distribution.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaundrake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah let us know what the final settings come out to.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yay!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ccivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I want this DD to be able to handle turns bad ***, though</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah because j00 need "bad *** handling" on a daily driver and the alignment will make that happen :rollseyes:
Thread Starter
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From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Re: Alignment settings (.RJ)
Alignments play a big part of handling. I believe that with the correct alignment, and the well setup suspension that I have.. I will be able to handle a lot better than a lot of other cars out there. I'm not trying to be a badass. Don't start flaming me for **** you don't know.
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From: Locash
Re: Alignment settings (ccivic)
**** this guy. RJ is always an *******. Look at some of his posts. I think that's all he comes on here for. I swear, they need to make a big forums at *******.com for people like him.
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: Alignment settings (shaundrake)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaundrake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">**** this guy. RJ is always an *******. Look at some of his posts. I think that's all he comes on here for. I swear, they need to make a big forums at *******.com for people like him.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I really dont care what j00 think of me - but j00 keep spreading misinformation.
I really dont care what j00 think of me - but j00 keep spreading misinformation.
Future Texas Boy
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From: SoCal Redneck
Re: Alignment settings (shaundrake)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaundrake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">**** this guy. RJ is always an *******. Look at some of his posts. I think that's all he comes on here for. I swear, they need to make a big forums at *******.com for people like him.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You seem like a bigger ******* than RJ: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1088904
You seem like a bigger ******* than RJ: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1088904
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Shiny side up dammit, MO
Re: Alignment settings (shaundrake)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaundrake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think that's pretty obvious. -1.8 degrees static in a turn is going to be more than -2 degrees on the outside tires.</TD></TR></TABLE>
oh really? so you know exactly how much negative camber will be gained per inch of suspension compression vs how much negative camber will be lost per degree of body roll? well, honda should hire j00 right now!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaundrake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Along with hydraulically controlled spring rates. Just in case you got a couple mil burning a hole in your pocket.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
j00 don't need a couple million to develop that technology because that technology is already out there.
what do you think montser truck suspension's are? and what honda-fanboi doesn't know about motons?
I think that's pretty obvious. -1.8 degrees static in a turn is going to be more than -2 degrees on the outside tires.</TD></TR></TABLE>
oh really? so you know exactly how much negative camber will be gained per inch of suspension compression vs how much negative camber will be lost per degree of body roll? well, honda should hire j00 right now!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaundrake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Along with hydraulically controlled spring rates. Just in case you got a couple mil burning a hole in your pocket.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
j00 don't need a couple million to develop that technology because that technology is already out there.
what do you think montser truck suspension's are? and what honda-fanboi doesn't know about motons?
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From: Portland, OR
Re: Alignment settings (vtecvoodoo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecvoodoo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You seem like a bigger ******* than RJ: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1088904</TD></TR></TABLE>
uhh hows that? I think Chris M is slightly bigger ******* than RJ. All Shaundrake said was not to write homophobic comments in your posts. So Chris M gets all pissy and makes a post about it? Whatever.
You seem like a bigger ******* than RJ: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1088904</TD></TR></TABLE>
uhh hows that? I think Chris M is slightly bigger ******* than RJ. All Shaundrake said was not to write homophobic comments in your posts. So Chris M gets all pissy and makes a post about it? Whatever.
