and was wondering what some good mods are to start off with for a reasonable cost. A header and exhaust is a good place to start, I know, however I'm not sure what brand(s) to go with. Any suggestions?

 

What are you going to use the car for?

Do you want the best brands, or cost-effective brands?

More info please.

 

I'd be using it as a daily driver to work until going to the Texas Motorplex on Friday nights to mess around. The products don't have to be cheap, however I want some real results out of them. I'd rather have a no name product that gives me more power than a name brand product that gives me nothing.

 

brand name IHE will give you some power but very lil. no name brands will make you lose power in almost all cases. just do your research here using search and you will know what to buy

 

I say go with Amuse on the exhaust part then boost it

 

The only way to make usable power is to supercharge the car. You can spend thousands on all the exotic parts and people will wooooo and ahhhhh about how JDM you are. Without some type of EMS with the N/A parts you WILL lose power overall, from Mugen, to Spoon, to Amuse, to Comptech, the price just gives your car that "show" look with the status of pricey parts that don't amount to crap

I have a stack of dynos to prove it. Thats my take.

 

Visit http://www.s2ki.com and use the search function. You will find what you need.

The short of it is that you cannot make large HP gains with N/A changes on the S. You can see about 7.5 hp from a single outlet inexpensive exhaust like the Spugen but you may give up small amounts of torque for the gain.

Here is a group buy on the exhaust with dyno.

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/ind...33877

You can avoid these small loses by going the route of Mugen, Amuse etc but each piece costs at least 1k and goes up to about 2.5k. These pieces make even less gains but they do it in a more valuable rpm range.

 

its going to be hard to "notice" difference with s2ks. even when you spend thousands of money, which you will with header, intake, exhaust...you may gain maybe 5~8 hps and that is consider good.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">for a reasonable cost.</TD></TR></TABLE>

hahahah, oh my

anyhow, don't listen to these nay-sayers. you don't have to go supercharger to get this car moving, that's just the easiest solution for people who don't want to dive into the motor and actually work.

granted, supercharging will be more cost effective, but i just don't like FI hondas period. NA is a lot more satisfying in my opinion.

to start, i'd get a good exhaust. like an Invidia, Veilside, or maaaaaaybe Spugen if you have no other choice.

next, get an itake and header. AEM if you like that sort of thing, or the Comptech ice box. you're not going to see a lot of gains here, so just go with what you like better. i like the fact the ice box wont suck up water, but once again it's personal preference.

then you'll move along to headers. DC Sports loses power in most cases. Go with Toda, Amuse, or Mugen they all have different characteristics so search around and find out which one sounds best to you.

then you have some choices. most people here usually focus on one of two things: more motor work or suspension. there's a myriad of suspension components, so we'll focus on the motor for now.

if you decide to go supercharger or stay NA, either way you will need to get an AEM EMS. there are other available, like Greddy Emanage or Tec 3. but so far the AEM seems to be outperforming them. expect to pay some big bucks for multiple tuning sessions to get everything sorted out though.

if you stay with NA, you have a lot of options. porting the head, raising the compression, different intake manifolds, more agressive cams, a 2.2 stroker kit, a 2.3 stroker kit, getting a valve job, and getting some gears out back will really help with acceleration. 4.57s or 4.77s is what people seem to be most happy with.

it only gets deeper from there

don't let other people's negativity get you down though, i felt differences when i added my exhaust and VAFC. granted anything you do wont throw you back into your seat (other than a 100 shot of n20, or turbo) but you will notice a difference

good luck

 

He asked what kind of parts to add. You are considering practically tearing apart the motor, and rebuilding it or stroking, it etc.

The fastest S2000's and most reliable with power are supercharged ones thats proven. There is no need to re-invent the wheel, there are people who have spent well over 15k on N/A mods on this car only to be disappointed, in over all performance.

The car is virtually perfect from the factory, getting extreme with N/A requires too much work. You can't just slap on some parts and have it work.

You can throw on a Mugen i/h/e and lose power overall, maybe pick up 2lbs/ft tq peak.

Why? Its all about the A/F mappings on this car. It's about tuning which was done for you its not easy to mess with.

All the dyno days I went to, almost 90% of the S2000s with some sort of bolt ons made less power than stock cars. Just something to kick around.

 

Good post Motavia. I wondered who'd chime in with the "leave it alone" comments. At least for the time being, enjoy it how it is. Then see if you think something needs to be improved upon. But... if you are going to be racing in Ennis, then you will just want power, and I'm not so sure this is the right car that you want for the best ETs.

 

i'm not sure what dynos you've been to, but i've only seen a couple of of people lose power and that was from using generic off-brand parts. you're acting like if you do anything but supercharge the car it will lose power. and that's simply not true.

i simply provided a perspective. he asked about parts and i listed a handful of good proven power-makers without resorting to "oh just supercharge it". of course it's more involved with NA, but i personally think it's worth it.

as long as you have a knowledgable tuner, your car will not lose power with bolt-ons. there's something to kick around as well.

 

The point of bolt ons is to make power without having to tune the car.

You cant just throw the parts on and head to a dyno and they fix it. With this car,
You need some type of EMS, be it your VAFC, Hondata, or AEM systems.

You obviously went that route, and how much did you spend on your exhaust and VAFC, and dyno time?

And what are your dyno numbers before and after?

 

VAFC was free. harness was free. tuning was a flat $150. and the Spugen exhaust was $440 shipped.


i'll dig out my dyno sheet from Church's when i get home.

i remember the final number was 223hp. i can't remember the baseline right this second. and that's dynapack by the way.

 

T1-R is a high-quality and power-making exhaust system, it's also affordable.

 

Thanks for all the advice, can I get some links?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ImportSport &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The short of it is that you cannot make large HP gains with N/A changes on the S. </TD></TR></TABLE>

sorry but you're either misinformed or haven't done things correctly.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Motavia &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The fastest S2000's and most reliable with power are supercharged ones thats proven. There is no need to re-invent the wheel, there are people who have spent well over 15k on N/A mods on this car only to be disappointed, in over all performance.

The car is virtually perfect from the factory, getting extreme with N/A requires too much work. You can't just slap on some parts and have it work.

Why? Its all about the A/F mappings on this car. It's about tuning which was done for you its not easy to mess with.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

you too are either misinformed or don't really know.

What do you mean by the "fastest s2000's?" stop light racing? road course? auto-x?

The car is not "virtually perfect" from the factory. You don't need to go "extreme" to make hp...bolt ons will do. All you need is the EMS and tuning + the bolt ons, 40whp can be attained by spending less than half of your highly inflated estimate of 15k. This gets very old very fast when you hear people say the car is perfect, there is no room for improvement. If you've seen the a/f mapped out on a stock ecu, you'll know what I'm talking bout. <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ryocross &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The point of bolt ons is to make power without having to tune the car.

You cant just throw the parts on and head to a dyno and they fix it. With this car,
You need some type of EMS, be it your VAFC, Hondata, or AEM systems.

You obviously went that route, and how much did you spend on your exhaust and VAFC, and dyno time?

And what are your dyno numbers before and after?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

ecu's aren't like they were in the old days, they are are more advanced and engines are more susceptable to damage, hence the conservative programming on the s2000. Every car isn't the same, and the point of bolt-ons is just that, bolt on parts that don't require fabrication. That doesn't equate to making power with tuning. You can look at other msg boards where tuning is required for simple mods like an intake. Please don't be ignorant.

FYI, hondata doesn't have a system for the s2000 and the only system AEM has for the s2000 is the EMS.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ryocross &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The point of bolt ons is to make power without having to tune the car.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

no its not. the point is to make the fit easier than custom mods. you still have to tune bolt ons to get max efficiency depending on application.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ryocross &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You cant just throw the parts on and head to a dyno and they fix it. With this car,
You need some type of EMS, be it your VAFC, Hondata, or AEM systems.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
hmmm. hondata doesnt have an ems for the s2000.

.........just my 2 cents........

 

figure out what you want to do with the car first. tell you one thing, if you are thinking of dragging your s2000, just sell it and get a new car...

sorry, i may sound ignorant, but the balance is so close to perfect on that car, and building it to go straight would just be a waste IMO.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
sorry but you're either misinformed or haven't done things correctly.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hmmm, I'm not quite sure where you have found an S2000 that made sizable N/A gains from the types of parts the original post in this thread was addressing. I would not consider any I/H/E gains I have ever seen posted on an S2000 significant when in relation to most other common "tuner" cars. This accounts for posted dynos relative to tuning as well. You are more than welcome to reference this thread.

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/ind...&st=0

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The car is not "virtually perfect" from the factory. You don't need to go "extreme" to make hp...bolt ons will do. All you need is the EMS and tuning + the bolt ons, 40whp can be attained by spending less than half of your highly inflated estimate of 15k. This gets very old very fast when you hear people say the car is perfect, there is no room for improvement. If you've seen the a/f mapped out on a stock ecu, you'll know what I'm talking bout.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
40rwhp from just 7.5k in mods and tuning time, on the same dyno from the base to modified? I really dont think so. The factory set fuel map on this car is pretty good actually, it's the ignition timing and knock retard system that kills the HP. Fuel adjustments don't really rob much power, it's the timing that is more agressive in determining the power output.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ecu's aren't like they were in the old days, they are are more advanced and engines are more susceptable to damage, hence the conservative programming on the s2000. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually, it's the S2000's high compression ratio of 11:1 and the fact that honda knew there would be people who are dumb enough to regularly put 87octane gas in the car that they had to imbed these strict conservative maps and functions for the ignition control.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Every car isn't the same, and the point of bolt-ons is just that, bolt on parts that don't require fabrication. That doesn't equate to making power with tuning. You can look at other msg boards where tuning is required for simple mods like an intake. Please don't be ignorant. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Bolt ons are suppose to require no replacement of any parts involving fuel delievery. Manufacturers design all fuel systems with at least a 15-20% oversize in all fuel delievery components. Tuning cars would no longer be a bolt on affair because it requires fabrication to install a V-AFC, E-Manage, or AEM EMS into the car.


If you want most bang for the buck with this car, get the AEM EMS and spend a couple months tunning with a well trained tuner. Definately more gains than any other N/A retaining modification on this vehicle for the $$$. The car will never drive like stock, you'll spend a good bit of money on spark plugs, you'll PROBABLY have a lot of headaches until all the parameters you want are full-filled --but after all that, it'll drive almost like stock and you'll gain a good bit of ponies.

 

It's all a matter of opinion and egos on here dictate what advice is.
The fact is tuners, and parts makers are going to forced induction to get real power out of this car. You don't see any N/A solution making consistant reliable power anywhere close to 280-320 WHP as the F/I solutions are making for half the price of an expensive N/A buildup.

You have your n/a tuners too, that everyone drools over. Your average Joe does not have the budget for $3000 for a i/h/e combo which does next to nothing, without EMS.

I mentioned HONDATA, because of other Honda models, assuming someone was going to bring up, how versitile the Honda ECU was at adapting

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ecu's aren't like they were in the old days, they are are more advanced and engines are more susceptable to damage, hence the conservative programming on the s2000. Every car isn't the same, and the point of bolt-ons is just that, bolt on parts that don't require fabrication. That doesn't equate to making power with tuning. You can look at other msg boards where tuning is required for simple mods like an intake. Please don't be ignorant. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I could be ingorant and just believe you, but I dont have to. I have sat through dyno after dyno and watched S2000 after s2000 go through their paces.

The stock 02-03 A/F mappings are amazing smooth. Their is small room for improvement if any, and that is all from 8000-9000 RPMS where all most people can do is lean it out up top.

The average 00-01 can do a VAFC tuning on a stock car and get an extra 2-5HP. Thats on a dyno, which means nothing for real world performance

Not too many people dyno their car stock to see the before and after affects of throwing on bolt-ons. Most are more concerned about hearing how loud VTEC sounds after they throw on some parts. I am very surprised, they don't have a system that you can install with a speaker on your hood so people can announce to everyone when they hit vtec.
That would be cheaper for most people.

The proof is out there of how much the ECU on this car does not compensate for bolt ons.

You have to use an EMS to touch this car, more so on the 00-01s.

Just on priciple it is absurd to be using an EMS system to tune the car for an exhaust and header mod.

You have the money for crap like this which does next to nothing for performance, donate it to cancer research instead.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Motavia &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You have the money for crap like this which does next to nothing for performance, donate it to cancer research instead.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i know we have a difference of opinion on FI vs. NA and i was trying to keep an open mind to your side of things, but that was seriously the most uninformed, immature, & biased statement i've ever read.

 

Glad you approve.

I don't like F/I, this just happens to be one of those cars is a perfect example for it.

Until someone can show me before and after dyno plots of S2000s making more than 10HP with I/H/E mods without EMS. I would have to say that you people should start writing out checks to

http://bca.ns.ca/donations.htm

At least you get a certificate. I know most people would rather spend 800+ on comptech parts who generally copy hytech's designs. Or better yet throw on a mugen airbox for $1000.

Wheres the proof? There is none. It's like throwing an Intake and exhaust on a Civic, sounds cool, but is worthless.

 

I have personal experience with more than several including my own car that have made "significant" power running a tuned ems and fuel tuned mugen ecu. There are other places than s2ki for info, and not everyone is on a message board. You wont hear dyno numbers from race cars or race crews either. It's ignorant to make statements without knowing exactly what's going on.

Think again.

there's no fabrication in installing an EMS, it plugs right in. The other stuff is piggy back. It's foolish to think that bolt-on-parts on one car will be the same on another model/make. Every car is different, even within a model. On the s2000, the stock ecu wont make the best of aftermarket parts, once you understand that, you'll realize that tuning for hp on an NA setup (on any NA setup) requires the entire package. All the parts compliment each other. There's no such thing as free hp and it's all personal preference.
You're right, it's foolish to think anything else other than FI to make power on the s2000. But when have you heard of anyone running NA bragging about their power output? I simply state: it's not hard to make 40whp on the s2000 with bolt ons and tuning to tell ignorant folk that it's possible and they should stop telling people this car is "max'ed from the factory....can't make anymore power." There is room for improvement. If you want a supercharger or turbo, go for it, whatever floats your boat, but don't say there's only one way of doing things.


Welcome to ignorance. I think it's absurd to waste time arguing on the internet when you can volunteer your time at a cancer research facility, or better yet, apply for a seasonal boarding pass on a short bus

Correction: the mugen airbox is $1400, not $1000.